Connecting the Pack

Norkplim Mattah 0:00
All right everybody, welcome to another episode of Connecting the Pack. In today's episode, I am, unfortunately, not joined by my co-host Veronika, but hopefully for future episodes she will be my co-host and we'll be having a conversation with our wonderful guests. But for today, I am joined by Norkplim Mattah, right?

Yeah (both chuckle).

Abdullah Najjar 0:28
That's how it's pronounced? All right, that's good. So- so Norkplim is a graduate student here at NC State University, and she comes from Ghana, and today we're going to try to talk about her past life in Ghana and some of the intricacies of why she decided to show up the United States and pursue a graduate level- a graduate degree rather and so I'm very honored to be joined by Norkplim. Norkplim, welcome.

Norkplim Mattah 1:01
Thank you for having me.

Abdullah Najjar 1:03
Absolutely. So, I'm, you know, I'm very interested to know, obviously, more about the- the decision you made that brought you to the United States of wanting to pursue a graduate degree here at NC State. But I'm also interested in knowing more about your past life in Ghana. So how about you share with me and the audience a little bit- a little bit about your your maybe college life in Ghana, and what you did after, sort of, graduation?

Norkplim Mattah 1:44
Yeah. So I'm the last of three, right, so in four. And I mean, I had first intended to go to college and read law but my-

Abdullah Najjar 2:00
Wheat lore?

Norkplim Mattah 2:02
And read law. Sorry, yeah, law.

Abdullah Najjar 2:04
Okay.

Norkplim Mattah 2:05
I wanted to be a law student, be a lawyer, and all that. That had always been the plan, even in my high school. But one, I think, when I finished high school, I got home and then I met my sister, who was my elder sister, who is reading law at that time,. And I looked at her, and I was like, "oh, my God, this is not for me." I don't know why, but something just snapped. I was like, "no, I don't want to do this now. If I want to do it in the future, that's fine. But now," I was like, "I'm too young to be doing all of this." So I decided to divert a bit. So I got into University of Ghana, and then went to read political science, French, and Spanish.

Abdullah Najjar 2:49
Political Science, French, and Spanish. Okay, did you hear that audience? Political Science, French, and Spanish.

Norkplim Mattah 2:56
Well, in Ghana- so how it is for some of the schools is you get- you enter with three- three different paths, and then so- political science, French and Spanish- and then by their second year, you can drop one and then either do a combined major, or have a like one major-one minor, however you want to do it right? So that's for the Humanities college. That's how it's usually done there. So I ended up with Political Science, French, and Spanish. And then by second year, I wanted to focus on languages. So I focused on French and Spanish. So then I did my- so I did my- sorry, my undergrad in French and Spanish.

Abdullah Najjar 2:56
Wow.

Norkplim Mattah 3:08
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 3:11
Do you speak French and Spanish?

Norkplim Mattah 3:40
I do.

Abdullah Najjar 3:41
Oh, my lord, I should have included that in the intro. We have a multilingual guest.

Norkplim Mattah 3:46
So, yeah. So I think I've always- I've always- I think my first interest in international studies and relations came from my year abroad. So I did my year abroad in Spain, Zaragoza, which is very beautiful.

Abdullah Najjar 3:50
Oh, my.

Norkplim Mattah 4:05
And I was one of the unlucky people to happen to experience covid in on my year abroad. So I traveled 2019, and by 2020, that was like the first like big hit of covid. So we had to do our classes online, and it was just- it was interesting. So that meant having to, like- I was experiencing this new phenomenon with everybody else, but in an unfamiliar space. I didn't have family with me. I mean, we were a group of students, but I wasn't living with any of the Ghanaian students. I moved- I moved into an apartment with Spanish- Spaniards.

Abdullah Najjar 4:43
Yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 4:43
So that was nice, but then- until when covid hit. I mean, they had family, so, I mean, once they could travel, they left, and I was alone the apartment. And so then I said it- like I was speaking with other Ghanaian friends and who were doing the airport in France and everything. And the conversation started centering around how we would go home. And I found it interesting, because then I realized that for the French students, the department, which I think is a bit more composed than the Spanish department, had started putting like measures in place and all of that for them to go back home. So they had spoken to like the airlines, KLM and other stuff, right? So they had like a sort of like escape plan for the for the students. But then the- for us, the Spanish students, we didn't seem to have anyone. So I reached out, because before we left, they had made me the leader for the Spanish students who traveled to Zaragoza. So I reached out to the- to the Ghanaian embassy. There was a guy we had been in contact with, right? And then, like, "oh, this is the situation. And like, school is over, so we are thinking of how we would come back home, because, I mean, we can't stay here forever." And, yeah, so he was not really helpful, which was- which was so disappointing, because we had, I mean, we are foreign nationals in a- in an unknown country, but we don't know what anything's about. And so he was, I mean, he was trying, but I don't think he even knew what- how to go about any of it. So, I mean, we were talking about evacuation flights and all of that, and to like, okay, so when, when he hears of something or like, anything coming up, he would let us know. I was like, "okay, that's cool." And sometimes he would call me, like, maybe the- on a Tuesday that, "oh, so there's an evacuation flight on Friday," right? And it's maybe in it's in the Netherlands, it's in Amsterdam, you'll have to- and so the most he can do is get you on the Amsterdam flight. But so basically telling me that you would have to find your way to Amsterdam. Which I found (Mattah exhales).

Abdullah Najjar 6:49
Oh my god.

Norkplim Mattah 6:50
I didn't- I didn't understand it. He want me to walk there? From Spain? So it was just- so I took the initiative, and I was like, "no, this can't be like our story." So after speaking with the Ghanaian students in front and understanding theirs, I reached out to their coordinator. I was like, "oh, I mean, we all here as abroad students, so let's just hop on the bandwagon." And I was like, "okay, so this is our situation, and this is what what we are going through. Can you help us?" It was like, "oh, yeah." So I then forgot the Ghanaian, okay, embassy in Spain, and started coordinating with the French coordinator, right? Daniel, really helpful guy. So then that's how I got, I think we're about 15 or 16 students, and managed to get all of us, like, on return flights back to Ghana. So it was, that was the dynamic. The first I was like, "huh, this is like an international thing." And, I mean, it was about coordinating flight coordinating when people wanted to return, some people had returned tickets and people had purchased one-way, so that when they're coming back they'll purchase their ticket back. So it was a lot of like, coordination on the international level, and speaking to, like the airlines and all of that. So I think that was what first piqued my interest. I was like, "huh? This is something I like to, like explore. Like how these- like how we are relating on an international level."

Abdullah Najjar 8:17
Right.

Norkplim Mattah 8:17
Because there was us in Spain, us in France, and then even Ghana, even the University right? Trying to make sure that when we came back, because when we came back we had a quarantine for 14 days and all of that. So all the logistics involved and everything, it was just- it was just interesting to experience Covid. So I was in Spain, then, after they started letting up travel and everything. I went to France to visit my to stay with my auntie, because I I wanted to be around family. So I left France to Ghana. So it was interesting to experience covid. I like to say I'm one of the few people who experienced covid in three different countries and two different continents.

Abdullah Najjar 8:58
Oh, my god.

Norkplim Mattah 8:59
Yeah. So I was in Spain, then I went to France, then I went to Ghana. So it was such a like, a sharp contract to come back home and to see like, you know, the European countries was like, there were, like, these strict rules, "nobody should come out" and all of those things. And I came to Ghana, was it like a party? No. So-

Abdullah Najjar 8:59
Oh my goodness.

Norkplim Mattah 9:20
I mean, to see that, like the estimate for Ghana, for the covid cases- it was- it was- it was amazing to know that we didn't- like African countries didn't really like hit the kind of margins the Western were.

Abdullah Najjar 9:32
Yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 9:33
But I really- I don't know if we are just lucky, because nothing about what we're doing should have saved us.

Abdullah Najjar 9:40
Right, right.

Norkplim Mattah 9:40
We should have been in the millions, but it was nice. So I- it was- it was- it was- very interesting. So that was what like, really, first piqued my interest-

Abdullah Najjar 9:48
In international studies.

Norkplim Mattah 9:50
In international studies, yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 9:51
So let me- let me just backtrack a little bit here, because there's so much to unpack. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so for for Spain. Yeah, you when did you have to evacuate? Can you, can you draw an estimate?

Norkplim Mattah 10:03
Yes, I actually left on my birthday. I actually even missed my flight.

Abdullah Najjar 10:09
Really?

Norkplim Mattah 10:10
Yes, because I had to get from Zaragoza to Madrid, which is- so I left on the Fourth of July.

Abdullah Najjar 10:16
Fourth of July.

Norkplim Mattah 10:17
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 10:17
Independence Day.

Norkplim Mattah 10:18
I know (both laugh) I'm looking forward to Fourth of July fireworks.

Abdullah Najjar 10:24
Hopefully you get to go to DC and see them over there.

Norkplim Mattah 10:27
I hope so (both chuckle). Yeah, so I- I left on the Fourth of July and got to France. So the idea was when, like, I was speaking with my dad and family, and they're like, because I don't really have family in in Spain, the idea was to go somewhere where I had family, because then they wouldn't have to worry about, how am I feeling. If they can't reach me, at least I'm staying with someone they know. But back in Spain, I was living with, um, Spaniards. I had, like, no other family, so if maybe I felt sick in the apartment, nobody could have come to, like, take a look, "oh, hey, what's going on with you," or, like, "how you feeling." Like there was no, I was the only point of contact for my family. So that's another thing most people don't realize about, like, international like, traveling abroad to study. If there isn't the community- it's become such a, like, abstract notion that you're on your own, right? So the idea was, because they weren't sure about how long the pandemic would go and how long lockdown would be, the moment, I mean- I mean the very moment they said, "oh, we are lifting sanctions on travel and everything," I was like, on the first plane. I was like, "okay, adios."

Abdullah Najjar 11:39
Yeah, capitalize on-

Norkplim Mattah 11:40
Yeah, before they shut down again.

Abdullah Najjar 11:43
Right.

Norkplim Mattah 11:43
Yeah. So it was, the idea was to just be around family that like, okay, yeah. So if at least once I was with family, there was no stress about rent or about when I'll be returning, because then I was like, "okay, I'll be here till I can go back home." Yeah, I mean, I was lucky that I had family in Europe. Some people didn't, so they had to, like, stay and wait till the evacuation was due. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 12:07
Do you- do you remember how it was to be in in lockdown in Spain, in a different country, for what, like, five or six months? I mean, how- and being with with people that were not technically part of your community, as you alluded to earlier, like, how did that feel? What was when you look back at those memories, how would you describe them?

Norkplim Mattah 12:37
It was nice. So um, one thing about me is I'm- I'm sort of an introvert, right? So, I mean, when I go out I try- I'm like- okay, so I go out once a day. When I go and I come back home, for you to get me to go out again, it's gonna take a lot (both chuckle). So it was nice. It was nice to be indoors, right? I mean, at the beginning, I had my roommate with me, and, I mean, by that time I had gotten pretty good in Spanish, so we could hold conversations, we could be laughing and everything. So when they left, I would give grace to my family, my sisters. Oh, my goodness, wow. They called every single day. Every day!

Abdullah Najjar 13:21
They cared.

Norkplim Mattah 13:21
Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you see me on campus and I'm on the phone, most likely I'm talking to my sisters. Like, just on, like, the most random stuff, and we just be talking.

Abdullah Najjar 13:34
Wow.

Norkplim Mattah 13:34
Yeah. So I think- I think they understood the fact that I- because I had told them my roommate had left, so I think they understood the fact that I was alone. So they tried not to make me feel alone. But I don't think- well, I never felt alone because they always called, but I'm I wouldn't know. But maybe if they hadn't been calling, I don't know, I maybe have been fine.

Abdullah Najjar 13:56
Wow.

Norkplim Mattah 13:57
Because I'm an introvert. But it was- it was- it was interesting, because, I mean, we're mostly indoors. And then I don't know if you know about this thing where Europe had a thing where, I think, eight o'clock every day they would come up and come out at their windows and, like, their balconies and everything, and like, clap for the- the health workers and all the people working during the pandemic. Yeah, so, I mean, that ended up becoming the highlight of my day. Actually, I was actually looking for it every day to it where you come out and we're all just clapping. It was, it was really like- I know other countries did it, so it was really nice to see, like, the appreciation for like, that level of commitment that the front liners were put in.

Abdullah Najjar 14:47
Gosh, yeah we didn't, we didn't do anything (both laugh) like that. And that's another thing you guys did down in, you know, in Ghana, right? I mean-

Norkplim Mattah 14:54
Did we? No-

Abdullah Najjar 14:56
Okay, you guys are partying (Najjar chuckles).

Norkplim Mattah 14:58
Oh yes, I mean, oh my goodness. Ghana. They were just- I love- I love Ghana. And I'm like, "you're just lucky." I even- I- to some degree, I think the number of documented cases may have been more, but most people, like, just treated themselves off like.

Abdullah Najjar 15:12
Wow, gosh. You're- you're- you know, my story was- I was- I remember, I was in Lebanon at the time when Covid hits. And I remember our- the program that funded me and other international students was telling us that "we have to send you guys back home," you know. And so my my friends and I were obviously, you know, we were in a state of chaos, in a way, because we didn't really know what was happening, and we didn't even know if we were going to come back anytime soon. And so, you know, they they book us our tickets. I end up going with, you know, a few good friends of mine who are traveling to Tunisia, and some other friends from Libya, or also going back to Libya. So we had our own sort of clique, you know. And I remember we- we established a sort of, like a- like a WhatsApp group where we would share with each other what sort of- what we were feeling when we go back home in terms of maybe the parents' symptoms (both laugh). And so actually, what was even- the scariest moment of it all was when I had to go back home to Libya and land in a city that was in a very tough spot at the time, because there was a huge conflict. And when I landed, just to give a little bit more context, this particular airport where I landed used to be a hangar, a military hangar. So I land, and it was in the middle of the night, around 10:00 pm and all of the people that landed already had family members waiting for them, but I was, I think, I was the only person that didn't, because my my parents couldn't come and pick me up, simply because of how dangerous it was to drive from the Capital City, where I'm from, to this particular city where I landed. And so I think the scariest moment was having to spend approximately 10 hours in that- in that military hangar, where it was completely dark outside, and I was probably the only one there. I swear to God, it was one of the scariest moments in my life. And I was 19, so I slept with one eye open (both laugh). And I just kept, you know, just looking at the clock, you know, waiting and waiting until my my father arrived. But that was, that was a very scary moment. And then when, you know, when I went back to the capital where I'm from, and my father arrived, I kept checking up on my friends and the ones that I, you know, that I traveled with. And I vividly remember one of them saying that she woke up throwing up (Najjar chuckles). And I was like, this isn't happening (both laugh). And so what I did was I tried to hide all of that for my parents, and I would wake up every morning and I would have a spoon of olive oil because I thought this would do something.

Norkplim Mattah 15:14
Yeah (Najjar laughs).

Abdullah Najjar 16:40
But, you know, thank goodness I didn't get covid.

Norkplim Mattah 18:38
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 18:39
But that was, that was a crazy time.

Norkplim Mattah 18:41
Yeah, it was, my goodness, yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 18:43
And so you go back to Ghana, and then it must have been a completely different world. It's as if covid didn't exist. Yeah?

Norkplim Mattah 18:49
So, I mean, because I was supposed to go and continue my undergrad, because it was a year abroad, so like, almost like a gap year, I think they call it here?

Abdullah Najjar 18:57
Yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 18:58
Yeah. But this time, like, was credited, so it was part of my grades. Yeah, so going back to Ghana, I had to sort of wait-

Yeah.

because school- like the school system, like, they weren't sure about how to reopen, and they were contemplating, because they couldn't have all- like, all undergrads and masters and everybody back on campus. So they kept delaying, like, reopening and everything. So, I mean, I was like, "okay, then maybe I just, I'll just find something to do." So I ended up doing, like an internship at the bank.

Abdullah Najjar 19:31
Wow.

Norkplim Mattah 19:31
Just to have a feel of, like a work experience, and another, "oh, corporate... like something like this is not really for me." Yeah (both chuckle)

Abdullah Najjar 19:40
It's not everyone's cup of tea.

Norkplim Mattah 19:41
No, yeah. So it was, it was interesting. And then after that, so I went school, finally. I think it reopened by 20- by end of 2020 beginning of 2021.

Abdullah Najjar 19:54
Oh.

Norkplim Mattah 19:54
Yeah. So I, I go back to Ghana in 2020 I went back for my final year in 2021 . And then to that, it was about, like, I graduated, I think, sometime in November, but I was done with school, like, August.

Abdullah Najjar 20:10
Wow.

Norkplim Mattah 20:11
Right, yeah. So it was like a long semester. It was like a long semester that they just divided into two, sort of just to get, like, us out of the way,

Abdullah Najjar 20:20
Okay.

Norkplim Mattah 20:20
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 20:21
And was it- was it vastly different from how- from the system that was in place in Spain when you were in college in Spain?

Norkplim Mattah 20:29
Well, yeah, yeah, because, I mean, for Spain, the- I think that the teachers didn't really have a problem diverting to, like an online, a fully online system, or, like, a fully online class. But I found that in Ghana, I mean, because of Spain is in Europe, basically, I mean, the internet is much better, so-

Abdullah Najjar 20:51
Right.

Norkplim Mattah 20:52
Yeah. But in Ghana, you have people joining on, like bad internet, on Wi Fi and all of that. So I think even to some degree, even having tests online and everything with the schools, like official, like, their version of Moodle, was was interesting. And I mean me as a language student, if it was the first semester, some of the teachers had decided, oh, they wanted to do online exams and online this and online that. And I think, I don't know if it was a level of trust, but they weren't impressed by how many people were passing (both laugh).

Abdullah Najjar 21:27
Oh my god.

Norkplim Mattah 21:29
So I think by the next semester, they were like, "no, everybody's going- so even if we do online classes, you're gonna write, like your paper," because some of them had to do, like, translation and a lot of that. I think maybe they thought, oh- so- so, because we didn't have to do it, like in a like in a lab or something, you could be at home or anywhere and then be doing it. So I could be- I was sharing by my final year, or sharing a room with my classmate, like we're both doing French and Spanish. So when the time for exams comes up on my laptop, she's on her laptop. And then, like, the questions, I mean, are a bit jumbled up, but then you could figure out, like, at some point, that, "oh, I've had this question already; this is the answer," or something like that.

Abdullah Najjar 22:09
Sharing notes.

Norkplim Mattah 22:09
Yes. So I think, I think maybe, I honestly believe that the overall, maybe students did too well, which I don't know if people know about African communities, the lectures prefer to fail than to pass (both chuckle). I mean, they pride themselves in saying, yeah. Like, if it's a class of 100, "yeah, 50 people fail my class."

Abdullah Najjar 22:32
They take pride in that.

Norkplim Mattah 22:33
Yeah. So I think they were not too happy about it, because yeah. So even in the translation exam, when I submitted, the teacher was like, "yeah, it looked like you use a translator." I was like, "no, this is me." And he was like, really?" So I had to go back and see him. And then I think, I think what helped was, like, because I've been a good, like- I had been getting good grades. It wasn't like, out of context, in a sense.

Abdullah Najjar 22:57
Oh yeah. It wasn't like, an isolated incident.

Norkplim Mattah 23:00
Yeah. So he was like, "okay, yeah, then maybe you are not like that." But I think there was- there was just no my not my trust. So by the second semester, every exam was like, physical, they didn't care about Covid. And maybe by 2021 I think the vaccines are started rolling out. I don't really remember.

Abdullah Najjar 23:15
Yeah, I think it was mid maybe, because I remember taking my shot in mid-2021 or actually, both shots, yeah. And then I went on an exchange semester in the fall of 2021 so I think you're right, around that time, yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 23:33
So by then the- either, right? So they were trying to, like, gap us in the exam halls and and then- I'm like- they were like, "everybody wear a mask. We don't really care. We just wanted to write it in front of us," which is the difference. So, yeah, by then- so then after that, I had to- so you graduating, you have to think about work and all of that. So in Ghana, we have this thing where most people, after graduating from the from the universities, we have a thing called National Service.

Abdullah Najjar 24:06
National Service.

Norkplim Mattah 24:07
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 24:07
Is that like military conscription or-

Norkplim Mattah 24:10
No no no no no.

Abdullah Najjar 24:10
Oh boy, it's far from it?

Norkplim Mattah 24:11
It is completelyfar, yeah. I mean, I know how it sounds, like it's military, but no. So it's- it was basically a service after- so, unlike here, and I don't know how it works in other countries, but the idea behind it is, you- students fresh out of like universities who don't have any like, support, or don't have any connections to actually learn their job. What- what the National Service does is it helps you, like, integrate into, like, the workforce. They, so it's basically like, they'll post you somewhere, or, like, the all over Ghana, right? Some people are lucky: they stay in Accra, which is the capital. Some people get, like, remote, like, really remote villages and stuff like that to go and work in. But it used to be, like, according to your field, but I think now they just randomly pick some stuff and just put anybody anywhere. So what happens is, a lot of, like, private companies also started- are using that to recruit people, right? So, um, organizations and everybody. So you could just put out, like, um, a flyer that, "oh, we are recruiting for national service." So it was- it's- it's sort of like, like a stepping stone, because most, some people, when they enter the national service, get retained, like, full time, right? Yeah. So for me, the option was to become a TA.

TA?

Yes.

Abdullah Najjar 25:41
At a university teacher system?

Norkplim Mattah 25:42
Yes, yes in the Spanish department. But then I wasn't- I don't really want to be a teacher. I wasn't really interested in that, because I wanted to explore international organizations and national relations. So I had been looking out for applications and stuff like that. And then I saw one from the British High Commission in Ghana asking for staff, or like, National Service personnel. And so I applied to the Consular Section.

Abdullah Najjar 26:11
Oh, wow, that's fancy.

Norkplim Mattah 26:13
Yeah. And then that is how I like after graduate. After graduating, I moved into the into the workforce. So my first year was with the British High Commission.

Abdullah Najjar 26:26
The British High Commission; would that- is that the- so the British High Commission-

Norkplim Mattah 26:32
Yeah, the other British embassy.

Abdullah Najjar 26:33
Yeah, British embassy. I was gonna say, is it a consulate or British embassy that you guys had?

Norkplim Mattah 26:37
Yeah, but because it's the Commonwealth, so they call them- like Commonwealth nations call each other High Commissions.

Abdullah Najjar 26:44
Oh, okay.

Norkplim Mattah 26:45
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 26:45
So what can you maybe describe to us the process of getting into that and how- how it was like for you to be working with them?

Norkplim Mattah 26:57
Yeah. So it was- it was- was a pretty rigorous process. We had to apply. They had, like, some set of questions you had to answer, and all of that; and sending your application. Then after that they shortlist, like I think a group of five or six students: six people. And then then you get called for an interview.

Abdullah Najjar 27:17
Yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 27:18
So then there was the interview phase. I had to, like- I think they had to- they sent us some like, how the interviews are asked, like, how. Because I think the idea was, most of us haven't- because I didn't really have that much interview experience- it was really helpful. So I prepared, I did the interview. Apparently, I really aced it (both chuckle). Yeah. So then they- then, after I think a month or two, they go back to me that, "oh, they offering me the job," and all of that. So I was really happy about it, because it was in a field I was interested in. So for a year I was with a Consular section. And so in the British High Commission, the visa and the Consular Section are completely different; in other embassies it is joint.

Abdullah Najjar 28:01
Okay

Norkplim Mattah 28:01
So, yeah, so the Consular Section mainly handles British national issues. So if you have people who come to- so basically what the Ghanaian embassy should have done when we were in Spain. (both laugh)

Abdullah Najjar 28:15
Right.

Norkplim Mattah 28:15
Yes.

Abdullah Najjar 28:17
I love how you're connected to that.

Norkplim Mattah 28:19
Yeah, so- sorry. Yeah, so they so it was about- it was- it was, I would say, the most stressful year of my life.

Abdullah Najjar 28:29
Very stressful?

Norkplim Mattah 28:30
Oh, my goodness. So it's looking at it this way: think of it as a group of people who know that you're supposed to help them, who demand that you help them, and who do not understand when you don't want to help them.

Abdullah Najjar 28:43
Oh!

Norkplim Mattah 28:44
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 28:45
That's- that's a hard pill to- yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 28:48
It was a lot. It was because- because we had love frauds. We had people come to Ghana and the- who had been promised, like a girlfriend or something, and they got here and it was a fraud. We had people come and be robbed. We had people come and be assaulted, and we had people also come and just be like, straight up, annoying.

Abdullah Najjar 29:11
And what are- what is the nationalities of these people that are coming?

Norkplim Mattah 29:14
Only British.

Abdullah Najjar 29:15
British-

Norkplim Mattah 29:16
British Ghanaians, British Nigerians; so you just had to have a British Nationality. That's the only like that was only caveat for us helping you. You just had to be British. You don't need you don't have to have British residency. You have to be a citizen of the Great. So, yeah. So which was- which was very interesting. So it was, to me, was like coming from a place where it was- the dynamic was just, oh, my God. I was like, "Ghana, you're you guys are slacking," because it was interesting to see, like, this was the help they could offer. Somebody could come in. So the idea was, they were like, you've come into a country and you don't know what is- what, like, the place is about. So the idea was they wanted to- they wanted to be points of contact that you could talk to. So it wasn't like they were going to help you, but they could guide you in the right process. If you've been robbed, they could go like, "okay, so you have to report to this and do this and do that." So that was basically the main job. And-

Abdullah Najjar 30:14
Wait the job of- let's maybe paint a clear- clear picture here.

Norkplim Mattah 30:17
Oh yea, the job of the Consular section was mainly to provide assistance to British nationals.

Abdullah Najjar 30:23
Oh, but the Ghanaians didn't know that that service was not for them.

Norkplim Mattah 30:29
Yeah, so-

Abdullah Najjar 30:30
Whoa.

Norkplim Mattah 30:30
I mean, you have people come, and then- you had people come, like, from- trying to, like, get visas and stuff like that. But I think the point I was trying to make was, it was interesting to see that this service was available to citizens of a country and coming from a place where the embassy didn't- didn't really have that like, that was the contrast for me. I was like, "so for British people, when they go to any country, they just have to find the nearest embassy or high commission-"

Abdullah Najjar 31:01
Right.

Norkplim Mattah 31:02
"-and then figure themselves out from there." So I was just, it was, I think that was what made me want to even explore that more and to understand why, like, why certain embassies would, like, be this helpful, and you have certain embassies would just be like, "yeah, you're on your own do whatever you want to do," yeah? So that year was really, "oh my goodness, wow." The stories I have...

Abdullah Najjar 31:25
Share with us. We're ready to hear one or two of these stories.

Norkplim Mattah 31:28
Let me- let me pick the most... Let me see the most interesting,

Abdullah Najjar 31:33
Yeah, or the most annoying.

Norkplim Mattah 31:35
Oh, there was this there was this, I think, 80-year-old guy who had come on the on the idea of love. He apparently had found love in Ghana, right? And it's the weirdest thing. So he arrived, and then he was-

Abdullah Najjar 31:53
And he was from-

Norkplim Mattah 31:54
From the UK.

Abdullah Najjar 31:55
Okay.

Norkplim Mattah 31:56
Right. So he arrived and had decided that, oh, he wanted to- he's come because the person he's talking to online says, like, "let's finally meet, let's take our relationship to the next level." And he gets here and realizes this is a scam, but the guy refused to go back. Oh my God.

Abdullah Najjar 32:14
Really?

Norkplim Mattah 32:14
He did not want to go back. So apparently he was- like, he had found a beach hotel that he was staying at. And I think he got bored, to some degree, and then called the police and said that he had been kidnapped. So, like-

Abdullah Najjar 32:28
Okay (both chuckle).

Norkplim Mattah 32:29
And then the police had to investigate, and they found him, like, just chilling, drinking beer and stuff like that. So they got upset. So then they were- they had- they arrested him then. It was a false- he had made a false claim and stuff like that, so they were going to put him in jail. So we had to come in and my boss- oh, she was so sweet. She was really fast enough to go, like, "no, don't- don't arrest this guy. He has a mental issue, so like, could we just take him back so to avoid any issues," because having British nationals in prison is a lot of work and a lot of stuff, so we usually try to make sure that prison is the last option for the Nationals. We try to make sure that no matter what has happened if- if they are in the wrong the idea is to try to find middle ground so that it doesn't go like- there are some scenarios where, like, there is no middle ground, like they were caught smuggling drugs, or, like, they have committed some sort of, like, murder or something, right? There's no middle ground. You're going straight to jail (both chuckle). But then for the some- offenses, it was pardonable. And you could go like, "oh, this person is mentally deranged" or something like that, or, like, 'mentally unstable,' let me say that, right? Yeah, sorry, I don't have an idea.

Abdullah Najjar 33:40
It's okay.

Norkplim Mattah 33:40
Yeah, so that was- that was the idea. So for him, we had to, like, convince the Ghanaian police that, "oh no, look at this man. Like, really- he really isn't... so all up there." So we're like "okay, then they can't release him to, like, just be," so they sent him for like, a psych eval and, like, a medical evaluation at the hospital. So in the hospital, I was sent to visit him and then, like, get the information so that we could get him back to the UK. And this man was just uncooperative at every turn, right? Because the British have this thing where they call it an emergency travel document. So basically means that when you travel, which y'know was another thing I never knew till I worked there, because when you travel and you lose your passport, you could ask for that, and then they would cancel the passport in their system and issue your travel document. So it was like a mini-pass- it was like- it would look like a passport, but it was like a one time travel document. So you tell them that if maybe, let's say you were going to the US and you go back to UK, they would issue that passport for you, and you use it. By the time you get to the UK, they'll take it back from you.

Interesting.

And I never knew that. Africans travel with their passport as the most valuable commodity they are traveling with, because if you lose it, oh my god. You would spend months trying to get another one. So-

Abdullah Najjar 35:06
That applies to us as well.

Norkplim Mattah 35:07
I'm like I'm like what? It was so- so, and we had this like during like- so in the month of June and July, when a lot of them travel, like for summer vacation, we had over 100 applications a day. So they're just losing their passports.

Abdullah Najjar 35:23
The British?

Norkplim Mattah 35:24
Yes! (Najjar laughs).

Abdullah Najjar 35:25
Oh, my goodness! In Ghana?

Norkplim Mattah 35:26
Yes! (Both laugh). It was the weirdest thing. So I mean, if maybe your possible application is like delaying you could apply for that, but most of the applications were people who have come and have misplaced their passports. I'm like, this, could never fly. Me, a Ghanaian, when I travel, oh, I know where my passport is at all times, right? Because I cannot afford to lose it. So that was another interesting thing to like to compare. I was like, "wow, this is really nice." So I think the idea was, with a system that is working really well for you, no matter where you go, you find that you can easily, like, let go and enjoy yourself.

Abdullah Najjar 36:03
Yeah, and not stressed over losing it or not losing it.

Norkplim Mattah 36:06
No, because you know- you know- and they would report you! My goodness, if you go to the- if they come to the British Embassy and the high commission, and then they- they go like, "oh, I want this. I want that," and you don't help them, they would call the the foreign Commonwealth development office in the UK, and go like "this, person doesn't want to help me." Which is crazy, because some of them had the most outrageous like request, I think one time, somebody mentioned that she's transiting in Ghana, so she wanted to come and leave her bags at the High Commission because she has a friend in Ghana she wants to see.

Abdullah Najjar 36:30
What?!

Norkplim Mattah 36:33
She wanted to leave her bag, go see the friend, come back, come and shower and dress up, because I think it was a one day layover or something. She had chosen a one day layover.

Abdullah Najjar 36:48
Oh my god.

Norkplim Mattah 36:50
I like, what?

Abdullah Najjar 36:54
You were like, "this can't be real."

Norkplim Mattah 36:56
Oh no. It was just- so it was, it was a wow-thing. So back to the guy's story. So he was just uncooperative. And, I mean, the guy was just, he, he had, I think he had made up his mind he didn't want to go back. Because I think- so listening to his story, I think we are trying to find- because we had to send him back to family, and somebody had to incur the cost of him returning, right? So, but he was like, "I don't have a place to stay." He- I think he was just lying about a lot of stuff. So we finally got reached out to his nephew, right? So to be able to give you, like- because we're going to give him an emergency fund and everything, and to be able to do that, we had to know where he was going to stay. And he said he had rented out his place because he thought he was, like, he's found love, he's coming to, like, enjoy for like, six months.

Abdullah Najjar 36:56
Yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 37:40
So he had leased all his place. He couldn't go back there. So he then found a nephew. So we finally called the nephew, and then this guy was like, trying to be like, sly and be like, "just tell them, I'll stay with you, but I won't stay with you." And I'm like, look, we're trying to help you. So- so the nephew, apparently, he has been scammed so many times when I was at the hospital with him and I called him that like- we called him and we're like, "this is like- I am- I work with the British High Commission. This is not a scam." He really didn't believe me, so he actually called the foreign Commonwealth Office in UK, and they redirected the call to Ghana just to confirm my identity, which was insane. I was like, "wait, really?" It's like, yeah. And then I think that's when the nephew broke down, that he traveled, and they've been looking for him, and they had warned him against coming, because we're like, this is this sounds like a scam, but my guy was in love. He was on the first flight, so when we finally convinced him that, like like, "look, if you stay here, it's jail time for you. So let's just pack up and go and then, like, let like, things settle." I think he had to pay a fine and a few other stuff, and they will let him back into the country. And the guy goes, like, "okay, so you said- you said, I can come back in six months. I'll be back in six months." So he's counting days, like, to return-

Abdullah Najjar 38:55
To return to the loved one. Cupid did quite a number on him.

Norkplim Mattah 39:00
So I think when he came in, he didn't found find someone. I mean, I think he found another girl.

Abdullah Najjar 39:06
Oh, my.

Norkplim Mattah 39:07
So he wanted to come back and be with that girl. So I was like, I was like, come on, dudes, one love thing go. Well, do you really think this one will but, I mean, that's a power of love, I guess. So, yeah, that was one of my crazy things. Yeah, that was one of the crazy story. And there was so many love, I think, I don't know what has happened in the UK, but they're really fall in love with a lot of Africans.

Abdullah Najjar 39:29
Oh my gosh, that's, uh, interesting,

Norkplim Mattah 39:32
Yeah. So then

Abdullah Najjar 39:33
In Ghana.

Norkplim Mattah 39:34
Oh yes, in Ghana, in Nigeria, pretty much West Africa, yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 39:38
Wow.

Norkplim Mattah 39:38
But Ghana, we, I don't know, for the other embassies, but we get a lot of that, like, oh my goodness, they'll just come with a with a with the idea of, I mean, I think some of them even actually come and actually marry the people, right? Yeah, I've heard a couple of stories like that. Yeah. They come and marry the person. But the issue now is because of their age, because of, like, their huge age gap when they try to take the like, their wife back or their partner back, it's like the visa section goes, this looks like a marriage of convenience. Yeah? So that becomes a whole issue, and then they call us and go, like, why you're not giving us my wife the visa? Why my partner the visa? We want to go back. But I think the the UK Government is realizing, like, this is another trend of people trying to, people are using to emigrate to the UK. So they're trying to, like, curb that and make sure that there's no, yeah, but that was, that was one hell of a year.

Abdullah Najjar 40:35
Oh my God, so I'm sure you don't, you don't miss it now that you're here.

Norkplim Mattah 40:40
Oh no, I don't. So, I mean, after that, I was like, I mean, there were opportunities, and, like, other opportunities to stay but I was like, um, I really don't, because I was exhausted by that point. And by, by then, I wanted to just focus on, on swimming. And I was working with a friend who has a swim school. So we were like, I was coaching kids to, like, swim and stuff like that. So I was like, No, I just want, like, a different space of mind and all of that. So I did that for another year. And then after that, I was like, Okay, I'm ready to go back in. And then I got a job with a Brazilian embassy, oh yeah in Ghana as well, just yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 41:24
And what was your line of work with the Brazilian embassy.

Norkplim Mattah 41:28
So similar. So I was a consular officer and a digital communications officer, right? So basically, for them, it was more about Visa processing, Visa analysis. So it was about looking at the trends with which people were applying for visas, how we can make it better, and how to like kind of spot, like the little, little things we could spot with, like, fraudulent visas, fraudulent applications, and putting in like, checks and balance and balances to make sure that like, because you have some companies who would come like, oh, this group of people want to travel on a Visa or something like that. And then when we give it to them, the people would like not return when they get to Brazil, or they'll just use it for another thing, like they'll try and get to another Latin American country. So it was about putting together, like, policies and stuff like that to be able to go, like, okay, so this is another trend. So you had to, like, study the trends and then like, figure out, like it. So this people make becoming on like, a fraudulent basis, or something like that. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 42:31
So would you say that that experience was less stressful than the one with the British High Commission?

Norkplim Mattah 42:36
Oh, 100%

Abdullah Najjar 42:38
That's good.

Norkplim Mattah 42:39
I mean, for that one I was just studying. So with the British High Commission, you had to, like, take, like, the initiative. People came with you with their problems. So you had to go, like, figure out solutions, right? But with this one, I just had to study it, like, Okay, this and this and this and this, then just go give it to my boss. This is the one I've studied in this application, take a decision, right? So that was just, I was in the final, like, decision maker, which was nice, right? And, like, a different pace. And, I mean, because it's a much smaller embassy, there wasn't, like, a lot of pressure. And another thing was, with the Brazilians, they, bless their hearts, they they really don't, I don't want to say, don't care, but they are of the opinion that when you turn 18, you're on your own.

Abdullah Najjar 43:23
Okay.

Norkplim Mattah 43:24
Exactly.

Abdullah Najjar 43:25
Yeah.

Norkplim Mattah 43:25
You get it. So that was like, Yeah, this, this feels more African, nice. So you could have people,

Abdullah Najjar 43:32
It's close to home.

Norkplim Mattah 43:33
Yeah, because so you could have people call or, like, somebody would visit and go, like, um, they their child is like, they can't hear from their child again. And then our response was like, well, the child is an adult, so maybe they don't want to talk to you or something, right? Because we couldn't interfere. You can't technically interfere in an adult person's life, right? So that was like, a whole different pace. I was like, oh, so like, for that side, the visa section was more prominent, and then the consular was a bit so the consular, we were just issuing like new pass, because you had Brazilian citizens in Ghana. So we was more about passport analysis. And then I think we had more of birth certificate. So it was mainly like the standard consular services to Brazilian citizens. We had some Brazilians come and adopt kids from Sierra Leone. So it's about facilitating the process to carry the child back to Brazil and all of that, which is very interested. I'd never have told adoption cases, so that was nice, yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 43:33
But you know what's interesting? You're you're now back in school, and you've had such a rich experience in between your undergraduate year and your graduate years, right?

Norkplim Mattah 44:44
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 44:45
I mean, what, how, how does it feel right now to be in the classroom back at it again. You know?

Norkplim Mattah 44:51
It feels pretty overwhelming, yeah, and it's like a different piece. So, I mean, kind of, I'm like, I have to go back to, like, I mean, I was reading and everything, but like, the reading materials, the fact that I am back in school, I mean, it's just been, come to think of it, it's just been, like, three years since I left school, and then I'm back in school. So I think it's, it's a welcome change from like, the whole work world, because I've had a crazy run.

Abdullah Najjar 45:28
You sure have, you sure have.

Norkplim Mattah 45:30
Yeah, so it's a nice, it's a nice like, just like to take a step back and like, this is more so this is allowing me to have a bit of like me time, and a bit of, like, my like, self preservation and just to, like, focus on something I want to do, not something other people expect me to do. Because with work, it was more of expected to do this and do that, but this time I can, like, focus my interest, and then hopefully get into a field where I, I find interesting, which is, which is pretty nice, yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 46:00
And do you, would you say that the environment that you're in right now, be it Raleigh, the university, or otherwise, I mean, is that sort of similar to what you're accustomed to in Ghana, or is it different in many ways that you're like, Man, I have to adjust to this.

Norkplim Mattah 46:17
Um, it's a bit, it's, it's a little bit of both. I would say, I mean, there is a nice Ghanaian community here, which is very helpful. I mean, our roommate is a Ghanaian, so one of my roommates is a Ghanaian, so which is nice.

Abdullah Najjar 46:28
Oh, wow, was it? Was that by chance? Or did you guys coordinate?

Norkplim Mattah 46:31
No, it was by chance, actually.

Abdullah Najjar 46:33
Really?

Norkplim Mattah 46:33
Yeah, because she had a roommate who, so she was there with like two other people, and one of them got married and decided to move out the lease just happened to happen to become available, and I saw it. So by the time I reached out to her, not knowing that her Ghanaian, her roommate was Ghanaian, so I came, and then I met, I was like, Oh, that's pretty cool. And she's really nice. So it's very interesting. So I would say it's a little bit of both. I mean, my first year abroad experience was okay. I mean, we didn't really meet the Ghanaian community, but over here, like, there is, like, a strong Ghanaian community who will be like, Okay, so this is how things go around here and all of that. With regards to the schooling system, it's vastly different from what I'm used to, right? Because back home, I mean, you had a sense of, like, your expectations, and I would say it's a bit more like, um, the teachers would. The teachers kind of had like, um, I'm trying to put it in a nice way. So the professors

Abdullah Najjar 47:38
Put it in that or nice way. It doesn't (laughs).

Norkplim Mattah 47:42
So the idea in Ghana, and I think in a lot of African countries, is the professors always are right, and they have, like, this specific answer. They're looking for. What I find here, the professors are looking for your opinion. The professors are like, Yeah, tell me what you think. And I'm like, What do you want to hear? Whatever you're saying is correct. Like, just, just teach me. But so it was, I mean, there was getting used to that was interesting, like, at the beginning, because it was like, okay, so I had to keep reminding myself that I'm not there is no wrong answer. That was the thing in in Ghana, you find that there is a right and wrong answer, yeah, right before my for for me, maybe it's also because of the because of the, the differences in courses, but I find in Ghana, you couldn't easy, like, disagree with your lecturer. I did it once in class, and it was like a whole thing, and I didn't want to do it again.

Abdullah Najjar 48:38
Did they like public shame you?

Norkplim Mattah 48:39
Well, not particularly, but then I could tell, like the professor was, like, almost offended. And I find that I do that a lot. I really like doing that. I remember in my primary school, I did that to my ICT teacher. He was like, this was the answer. And I went heaven. And I was like, No, I want to get this mark. And this is wrong. And then he came back the next day, I think he had gone to research and realized that, oh, she was right. And then came to like, like, oh, this, she was correct. And so you guys should make sure that you are that I was spoken. I'm like, bro, just give me my my score, right? And I did that in in so every experience I've had doing that. I did that in my secondary school as well, right, where I think I disagreed with a teacher who we were doing poems or something, and he was trying to analyze the poem in a way I didn't agree. But then also, like half of the class was dozing off, and it was just me and the teacher, like, I'm like, No sir, this is this is not correct.

Abdullah Najjar 49:37
Gosh, you guys are going at it.

Norkplim Mattah 49:39
Right. But in both experiences, I found that, and even the university, I found that the teachers didn't really like being told they were not told they were wrong, but didn't like having a different opinion to theirs, which was interesting to see. And I think it's a cultural thing, because in most African countries you find like, the respect elders is, like, on another level, yeah?

Abdullah Najjar 50:02
Like, respect authority, traditional?

Norkplim Mattah 50:04
Yes, you can. You can really, well, well, here the professor. Like, oh, call me Mitton, Call me. Call me this. Call me that. Don't, don't worry about the titles. Like, tell me your opinion. I'm like, okay, but you're gonna, like, you're gonna be upset about later. Like, no, no, no, no, I want to hear from you.

Abdullah Najjar 50:21
It's genuine,

Norkplim Mattah 50:23
It is genuine and from someone from an African country, it's it's nice, but I think it's gonna get some getting used to, because you can't talk. But to some degree, even in class, I don't know if people have noticed, but I try to, like, choose my words correctly, because I really do not want to offend the professor.

Abdullah Najjar 50:41
Right, right. No, but honestly, I don't think you would.

Norkplim Mattah 50:44
Yes, so I think that is also another thing that was that's a really welcome change. I mean, it's nice to know that, like the I really, I'm really, I'm grateful that I decided to do my my graduate studies outside of Ghana, because I'm thinking of it this level of work in Ghana, I would be so upset, because I would have to think that my professor needs like I would have questions and I wouldn't be able to reach out to my professor. I would have this, I don't know, maybe, maybe, because I didn't do a graduate level there, maybe the professors are different at the graduate level. But for my undergrad, I wasn't too impressed. So nah, right, I really want to just do my graduate studies elsewhere. So which was nice?

Abdullah Najjar 51:23
Yeah, nice. Well, I'm so glad that you made that decision, and I do want to thank you for your time in this great conversation. I really enjoyed it. We got into, we explored so many different territories, and I, again, I'm honored that you decided to do this with me.

Norkplim Mattah 51:41
Thank you.

Abdullah Najjar 51:41
Yeah, thank you so much.

Norkplim Mattah 51:43
Yeah.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai