Connecting the Pack

Abdullah Najjar 0:02
All right, everybody, welcome back to season two of Connecting the Pack. This is your host, Abdullah Najjar, and in season two of Connecting the Pack, I'm trying something different. In this season, I will be co hosting the podcast with a former guest of mine, who goes by Veronica Becher,

Veronika Becher 0:23
I cannot take this seriously.

Abdullah Najjar 0:26
Okay, cut it. Pause it.

Veronika Becher 0:29
No, cut it. Just raw audio.

Abdullah Najjar 0:32
Raw and unfiltered.

Veronika Becher 0:33
Unfiltered, exactly. We're just changing the name to unfiltered. Thank you so much for having me. So how was your summer?

Abdullah Najjar 0:42
Gosh, it's, you know, a lot of people ask me this question. Sometimes I find it very hard to give just a concise and solid answer and to-that sort of captures the whole experience of my summer experience. That sound a little bit too redundant, but essentially, I remember one of my friends asking me when I came back, "how was your summer?" And I think I started with my first surreal experience of the internship, which is being part of the conference where they've officially announced the launch of the Jay Lots mission, which was essentially the humanitarian corridor that was established to bring you- to bring assistance to Palestinians from-from Cyprus. And it was a mission that I think, that was presided over by the Pentagon, in addition to a variety of other entities like USAID. And so when, when that that mission was officially launched the Pentagon, alongside USAID, they decided to reach out to a select few of journalists to be part of his conference, at um early in the morning of, I think- Gosh, I don't remember which day it was, but it was early in the morning they had this conference. And it was such a surreal experience to be witnessing history unfold before my eyes. It was, it was a crazy experience, and I still remember, actually, the, the time when my boss texted me the night before, around 10:30pm, and as you already know, I'm a I'm an early riser, and so I'm-

Veronika Becher 2:24
The opposite of me (both laugh). When Najjar- um, oh gosh, now I'm like talking to like and laughing at-

Abdullah Najjar 2:33
Najjar; that happened to me one of the episodes. The guy told me to call him by his first name, and I started calling him by his last name.

Veronika Becher 2:41
So basically, Najjar- (both laugh)

Abdullah Najjar 2:47
I gotta work that, Becher-

Veronika Becher 2:49
Not bad, not bad

Abdullah Najjar 2:51
Not bad, okay. I accept it.

Veronika Becher 2:55
Well, I'm a night owl. I just like recording episodes at midnight, working on it at midnight, and then waking up at 10:00.

Abdullah Najjar 3:06
Well, I noticed that,

Veronika Becher 3:07
Yeah, the opposite of you.

Abdullah Najjar 3:09
Yeah, no, that's the thing. I remember my boss texting me at 10:30 but I was asleep. I swear to God, I was asleep. She told me that this was- this thing was happening. You know, the the I think the Pentagon sent the email later at night. I mean, I think they sent it at 10:00, and she sent me the- I wasn't on the list of recipients because I wasn't a high ranking journalist in our organization- but my boss really trusted me, and she really- she decided to include me in that meeting. So she sent me the invitation when she received it, I think, around 10:30, and I was asleep, but I remember, I still remember that- that night. I woke up, I think, around 12:00, and I needed to use the restroom, and I just- I saw her text, and I saw the email. I was like, "whoa." She was like, 'don't come to the office. This is what you got to do, and just be sure that you relay the information that you hear, and share it with us so that we can share it with our offices in Dubai." And that was such a surreal experience for me to be waking up in the middle of the night to that text message. And so I was really nervous. I go back to sleep, and I wake up the next day, I have my coffee, and I set up my laptop, and I, you know, tune into the meeting. And it's just just the mere fact that I was present with some of the most interlific journalists, yeah, and being part of that conference and that brief, it's just it sort of set the tone of what I was going to be experiencing throughout that summer with that organization. And sure enough, that wasn't the first- that was not the only surreal experience of my internship there. But it was probably the first where I was like, "oh, my god. I can't believe that just happened." So to go back to your question, I mean, I find it very difficult sometimes to answer how my summer was, because it was just a roller coaster ride of different experiences and different engagements with people in different conversations and just forming a lot of connections and establishing good relations with many individuals, and having get-togethers. You know, very interesting- (both laugh)

Veronika Becher 5:24
I know exactly what you're talking about. I went twice to DC over the summer just to visit him, and the amount of questions I got from my friends asking me if we're dating or not, or if something else is happening, it's just crazy accumulating at this point. And every single time I had to explain to them, "no, I'm visiting a friend in DC." And it was one of the best deep talks that we could have, randomly in the kitchen at like midnight with our food in front of us, not touching at all, and then talking for like hours about different things.

Abdullah Najjar 5:59
I remember that night. I swear to God, I remember when you left, like two days afterward, I was telling Will, our wonderful host, who had me in his house throughout the entire summer. I was telling him "this table and this lantern right here witnessed the deepest conversation (both laugh) that you guys have probably ever, you know, experienced in your house." But I still remember that, yeah. You know, the funniest thing is that I was- so you were, I think during that day, you were out in DC, I was still in Fairfax-

Veronika Becher 6:32
Crazy day-

Abdullah Najjar 6:33
Yeah, I was- you had texted me and you were like, "I'm coming." And I got out at a restaurant, because I already had- already- you know, had, like, dinner plans. You know, the- I already had a plan of which place I wanted to go to to grab food. So when you text me, you're like, I'm I'm showing up in, like, what, 10 minutes, and I just bolted. I was running in the street holding that bag of food I was trying to make it to the house.

Veronika Becher 6:58
I didn't even know that!

Abdullah Najjar 6:59
Yeah, I didn't tell you that.

Veronika Becher 7:01
Now I feel so bad, because-

Abdullah Najjar 7:02
Np, I was running late.

Veronika Becher 7:03
And while he was doing that, I was walking around, calling a friend, and this random guy turns around and is like, "did you hear that Trump got shot." And that's literally how my conversation started with a stranger, somewhere in Washington, DC, out of nowhere, and in the end of the day, he gave me ride home.

Abdullah Najjar 7:26
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I remember though

Veronika Becher 7:29
And so, I'm just calling, you know, calling you up. And I'm like, "by the way, I hope I'm gonna be alive after this trip." But this guy was so nice. He actually reached out to me a couple of days ago. He was in Raleigh, but I couldn't make it because I was like, completely- I was like, busy with orientation week and everything that's just happening on campus, and I couldn't make it to dinner. So I apologize, but it was so funny. And we entered his car, and he was like, that was just the most green flag I've ever seen.

Abdullah Najjar 8:04
The greenest flag! (both laugh)

Veronika Becher 8:08
He was like, "here's a pepper spray if you ever feel threatened by me, it works." He, like, tested it. He's like, "you can use it on me at any time if you feel threatened by me."

Abdullah Najjar 8:22
He made you feel comfortable so that you feel comfortable with him (both laugh).

Veronika Becher 8:27
The analysis goes crazy. And the crazy thing is, the ride was just something I never expected. We were sitting in a really nice car. It was a nice car.

Abdullah Najjar 8:37
Oh, wow. What type of car?

Veronika Becher 8:39
We're not gonna start this car conversation today.

Abdullah Najjar 8:41
We'll avoid that for now, but it was a nice car.

Veronika Becher 8:44
But he knew so many things about the area since he, like, worked in the- you know, worked in DC for a long time, and we were listening to classic music- (both laugh)

Abdullah Najjar 8:57
That's so cool. No, that's really yeah

Veronika Becher 9:00
Because we realized we have the same songs that we're listening to, classic-wise, and I showed him, what's a- friends lists, like playlists. That's called playlists- of classic music and Liebestraum, I think it's like "Love Dreams'" or something like that. It's like one of my favorite songs, if I'm completely off. I'm sorry, but-

Abdullah Najjar 9:25
We'll check it out later.

Veronika Becher 9:26
We were, like, listening to that full blast on, and then some point, we switch to Studio Ghibli song. So this kind of anime music; it was really funny (both laugh).

Abdullah Najjar 9:36
It's an interesting transition.

Veronika Becher 9:37
But they are also like, classic music- like just classic music- and it was just so funny. I don't know. I just had a good time with the stranger, and-

Abdullah Najjar 9:47
He did pictures of you too, right?

Veronika Becher 9:49
Yeah!

Abdullah Najjar 9:49
Wasn't he the one that- yeah, tell us about the pictures (both laugh).

Veronika Becher 9:52
That sounds so wrong (both laugh).

Abdullah Najjar 9:55
They were not those-

Veronika Becher 9:56
No, no, no [Najjar laughs]. The pictures were, okay- basically the pictures were in front of one of the Capitol grounds, like buildings, and he decided to take pictures of me. And he was like, "I can take a picture." And he actually took one of the best pictures I own on my phone, honestly.

Abdullah Najjar 10:15
Oh yeah. I can attest to that; I saw that picture.

Veronika Becher 10:18
'Til a random guy passed by and he was like, "oh, you want to be in the photo too, with your girlfriend." And I was like, "this is going- getting out of it." So this guy just answers, "oh, no, we've know each other barely two hours, but that's okay." But I guess this is how you start dating someone, but- (both laugh)

Abdullah Najjar 10:38
They just shipped you on the spot.

Veronika Becher 10:40
I know, but it's okay- it's okay. I'm, I'm still saying it for everyone who's listening and is super upset right now (both laugh).

Abdullah Najjar 10:49
Yeah, no. It's- I think- I think you had a- I think you had a great time.

Veronika Becher 10:54
I had a great time. I feel like, yeah, my summer was really eventful for- yeah, I just, I just didn't expect that. Let's be honest.

Abdullah Najjar 11:04
Yup, here we go; one of our catchphrases, "let's be honest," (both laugh).

Veronika Becher 11:08
I just didn't expect that. Well, first of all, I'm starting on my own podcast, Identity Library.

Abdullah Najjar 11:16
Congratulations. [both chuckle]

Veronika Becher 11:19
Someone convinced me to start my own. And second of all, well, I was a camp counselor at Satellite. I got into fellowship program. I really wanted to get into. My grandma died. I should not laugh about these things.

But I don't know. And I also worked the whole summer and went twice to DC. So [both chuckle] like, my travel experience. I just onboarded a couple of days ago some of the New International Business School degree students, and they were like, "so where did you travel?" And I'm like, "DC, twice." My whole summer was like, it sounds so boring, but it was actually eventful and it was funny. I- you want to, you want a joke, like a fun fact story?

Abdullah Najjar 12:03
Yes, yes.

Veronika Becher 12:05
So I have a, I have a friend, a mutual friend, who I was seeing the whole summer, and we were just hanging out, and another mutual friend thought we're actually dating. So yesterday, when I met up with- just a- my friend, you know, and we had this conversation. They were like, sharing how a mutual friend was like, trying to share this tea about me dating someone, and it was super funny, because all we did was just hang out on the campus grounds. And people were like, assuming we're dating. So it's okay.

Abdullah Najjar 12:38
A lot of assumptions being made about you.

Veronika Becher 12:40
I know. That was just probably the most confusing conversation I've probably had with someone about like my friend, another friend and my third friend.

Abdullah Najjar 12:48
A lot of friends, and a lot of-

Veronika Becher 12:50
So many friends, exactly.

Abdullah Najjar 12:51
Wow, yeah, summer, oof. Yeah, it was a hard- it was overwhelming, I think, I think for me. It was just very overwhelming.

Veronika Becher 13:01
Well, at least he could enjoy your scones.

Abdullah Najjar 13:03
Oh god, don't start with the scones [Becher chuckles]. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So first off, let me just credit Will. Okay, William, my- my- the guy who hosted me, and his wonderful wife, Dr Theresa Rowe. He introduced me to scones, and I also learned that you can pronounce them as scōnes as well. So scōnes or scones, it works. So he told me about scones, and I had no idea what a scone is. And he was like, if you go to that one cafe, you can order a scone and just tell me what you think. And sure enough, I did go to that one cafe, and I had my mocha-latte, and I had my scone, and I swear to God, it was heaven on earth for me.

Veronika Becher 13:44
So you discovered a new tradition you would like every single Sunday. Is it Sunday or Saturday?

Abdullah Najjar 13:48
It was Saturday or Sunday-

Veronika Becher 13:49
Saturday or Sunday to go in and to grab his scone and then drink his mocha- coffee.

Abdullah Najjar 13:56
-latte.

Veronika Becher 13:56
Yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 13:56
Yeah. With the hearts and the- like the leaf. And it's just, I felt so in love with my coffee and my scone. And I still, you know, I still reminisce those- those days. Oh, my goodness, don't get me started. But the the most fun part is that I've- Will imparted that knowledge to me, and then I imparted that knowledge to you, and I introduced you to the scones.

Veronika Becher 14:22
Oh no [Najjar chuckles]. Yes, usually I don't like sweet things. I'm a more savory-person, but I feel like I enjoyed the scones a lot. They were so good. They were really good. But in comparison to you, I went to Jubala so many times [Najjar chuckles]. I was joking with my best friend, Lodonna, and I was like, "I think people think I'm like, dating 10 different guys at the same time," [Najjar chuckles]. Because the amount of times I went to Jubala with strangers or people that I wanted to meet, and it was such a convenient spot to meet up with friends, that they always would see me with someone new next to me-

Abdullah Najjar 14:57
Right.

Veronika Becher 14:58
-standing and I'm like, "I'm sorry. It's not just that I- I don't bring everyone here. It just happens sometimes, because it's close to my apartment," right?

Abdullah Najjar 15:07
It's out of convenience. But sometimes, yeah, you do feel- well, you know there's- there's- there are sometimes people-there are signals that people interpret or misinterpret when they see you with someone else. And that is- we want to connect dots. Humans want to make sense of certain situations.

Veronika Becher 15:28
Yeah, but maybe, you know, getting the conversation away from relationships, because that's not the topic of Connecting the Pack. Usually-

Abdullah Najjar 15:37
Definintely not.

Veronika Becher 15:37
-and since I'm the one sitting in the chair of the interviewer [which is] so strange to you [Najjar chuckles], probably.

Abdullah Najjar 15:43
I now feel like a guest. Actually, I think I am a guest.

Veronika Becher 15:46
You are a guest now, sorry. [both laugh] So how would you describe to everyone who's listening to your podcast? What am I doing here? Why am I now a co host? What happened?

Abdullah Najjar 15:59
Oh, gosh. What happened? So a lot of things happen [both chuckle]. Let's try to break it down here. So you're- you're host, you're official host of Connecting the Pack, or today would probably be, you're co host, Abdullah Najjar, whom you're listening to right now, has launched, or will be launching tomorrow, a new podcast that will be called "In the East Wing." And-

Veronika Becher 16:27
Yay.

Abdullah Najjar 16:28
Yeah

Veronika Becher 16:28
Sorry, clap.

Abdullah Najjar 16:30
I can hear the applause in the background.

Veronika Becher 16:32
Whoo, let's go! (Najjar laughs) New podcast!

Abdullah Najjar 16:35
Yeah, no, Essentially, "In the East Wing" will be a raw depiction of the Middle East; an unfiltered depiction through the eyes of those who experienced it in different capacities; through those who experienced the region in different capacities. So I'll be having conversations with people who have either served with the US military, or who have been part of the intelligence community, or who may have had experience in war reporting. I might be including other individuals as well, but essentially, this is the category that will be targeted. And this is- this is the type of personality that I'll be including on my podcast. But at the same time, I didn't really want to let go of Connecting the Pack, because I feel like it's, it's, it's my first project with WKNC, my baby. I would hate- (Becher laughs). I would be remiss if I were to let that one go. So you know, I-

Veronika Becher 17:29
Shame on you; (Najjar laughs) shame on you, otherwise.

Abdullah Najjar 17:32
I will not let it go. And so going back to your question, "why are you at the interviewer seat?" Well, Veronika, who's also been a guest on my podcast, um-

Veronika Becher 17:47
Listen to the last two episodes-

Abdullah Najjar 17:49
Yeah-

Veronika Becher 17:49
-if you have three hours of life, and you just need some wjite noise, like my friend would say, in the laboratory.

Abdullah Najjar 17:56
Oh my gosh, yeah. Listen to our latest conversations- our last conversations on a podcast of Season One. So Veronika will be my co-host. She's been really interested in joining WKNC, and she has, obviously, her own podcast too, Identity Library. But we both have- we've both enjoyed- we've- we've admired the theme of Connect- oh- we admire a theme of Connecting the Pack, and we'd love the this- this- this idea of engaging with international students. And we both didn't want to see it go to, you know, we didn't want to see it end or experience an abrupt cancelation. So we have informally agreed to co-host this podcast together.

Veronika Becher 18:39
And so, just to give you the view of Veronica sitting on her bed and randomly getting this message out of nowhere; who's stressing out already over her own podcast, that was initially a co-host idea and being like, "Veronika, do it by yourself. Identity Library can be by- can be a podcast only with yourself." And I'm just sitting there, "I don't even know if I can do it by myself. Like, can I even be a good podcast host?" And then I'm getting a second podcast also on my shoulders (Najjar laughs). And now I read, "we're gonna change the name. It's gonna be Connecting- Connecting the Pack with the Stalker, (Najjar chuckles) because initially I was apparently the stalker listening to all the episodes. Now I'm co-hosting it (Najjar chuckles) . So this is how far, you know, come in life if you're a stalker first and then you're part of it,

Abdullah Najjar 19:29
You have entered the world of Connecting the Pack (both laugh).

Veronika Becher 19:33
I'm the one steering it. But no, I feel like, you know, Identity Library is going to be more an expansion of Connecting the Pack. And I felt like, I want to interview people that are outside of just the, you know, international- an international student from a different country coming to NC State. I want to interview people that are Americans, or, I don't know, it doesn't really matter where you're from. Anything that is just connected with identity itself. Whatever topic you want to, you know, talk about.

Abdullah Najjar 20:08
Yeah, and that's, again, I mean, this is a great idea. A phenomenal idea, that I'm very excited to see come into fruition. I mean, you've already recorded a few episodes, and that are pending the-

Veronika Becher 20:18
Four... four episodes. We're getting there.

Abdullah Najjar 20:22
No, you, you're starting off on the right foot. I mean, I don't- gosh, I remember my first episode, and I was just very, just, you know, new project, feeling very nervous. And you- you went in face first, four episodes already. And that was a- for me, it was just like trying to just scouting for people, trying to figure out who to talk to. But it was such a very, um- I love the process.

Veronika Becher 20:53
Thank you. The issue is only editing everything (both laugh).

Abdullah Najjar 20:57
We don't want to disclose that, but the cat's already out of the bag. So-

Veronika Becher 21:00
Yeah, it's like, when you record so many of them, and, yeah, I feel like I wanted to record most people, because I feel like once school starts, it gets so complicated to match each other's schedules.

Abdullah Najjar 21:14
Yeah.

Veronika Becher 21:14
So I'm like, I might just as well, you know, record it. And I also recorded with my best friend, who just left. She just arrived in Spain. So shout out (both chuckle) if she's listening to this. Yeah, she was stressing over the first episode that we recorded, and I was stressing too. So we both were stressing and nervous. And it was literally such a short time frame, she arrived for two days to Raleigh just to say goodbye, and I managed to record a whole episode.

Abdullah Najjar 21:46
Wow, you guys did it. I'm just so surprised at how, how you guys, because it was your last week at the internship. I think it was hers too, right?

Veronika Becher 21:55
Not even, yeah, last week- last week. We worked at the same company on the whole summer. It was really nice. But then you were texting me, like, "stop being in the studio. Get out of the studio," (both laugh).

Abdullah Najjar 22:05
Wait, did I text you that?

Veronika Becher 22:07
Yes, you did. You were like, "enjoy your time, while it lasts with her." And then Lodonna, on the other hand, was like, "I want to record more," (Najjar laughs) "let me talk more. This is fun. I love talking."

Abdullah Najjar 22:18
I can't believe I- did I say that? Well, wasn't it? We may have had, like, a phone call or something. I don't remember.

Veronika Becher 22:23
You texted me, you were like, "Veronika, stop being in the studio. Get out. Enjoy your time," (Najjar laughs). And Lo is like "I would record another one." And I'm like, "okay, let's record another one. Let's record another one." And it just- it was fantastic. I loved it, I loved having her as my first- you know, first guest on the podcast. And then, literally two days later, we just decided to post it on the story, another person approached me was like, "I want to start tell my story," you know. And this is how it just continued. Um, also shout out to uh, International Tea Time; that was literally featuring us. Connecting the Pack-

Abdullah Najjar 23:00
Was- were they-

Veronika Becher 23:01
yes, they are really fantastic people. I love the idea. It's basically- you come in; it's each week on-

Abdullah Najjar 23:11
-Friday?

Veronika Becher 23:11
I don't remember if it's a Thursday or Friday, what day of the week, but it's on Centennial Campus, and they just serve you tea with some candy. And you can just introduce yourself and talk to people from different countries.

Abdullah Najjar 23:23
Oh my gosh.

Veronika Becher 23:23
Which is a fantastic idea. Something they were running for quite a while, and I decided to join for once, and they just loved the idea of Connecting the Pack. And the amount of people that approached me, like in regard of Connecting the Pack, was just enormous. Like so many people didn't even know Connecting the Pack existed-

Abdullah Najjar 23:44
Right.

Veronika Becher 23:45
And they were like, "this is such a fantastic idea. We never had a podcast about international students. So thank you so much for you know your idea, and me being a sucker and now part of your podcast-"

Abdullah Najjar 23:55
-and advertising it on my behalf, yes.

Veronika Becher 23:58
And I was like, "have you heard of Connecting the Pack yet?" Yeah, and I'm also starting my own one so, (Becher chuckles)

Abdullah Najjar 24:03
Yeah, no, I'll be taking the lead in advertising yours every now and again.

Veronika Becher 24:07
You should, you should-

Abdullah Najjar 24:08
"Social Identity Library,"

Veronika Becher 24:09
Yeah, exactly. And I just hope it's gonna be good podcast.

Abdullah Najjar 24:13
No, I'm really- I'm sure it's gonna- I think it's just the way it started. I think it's just, people are interested, you know, and when you have that sort of a claim, that interest that you've been able to amass just early on in a process, I think that just speaks to how valuable the message, or the- yeah, the message, that you're trying to get across. And so I never knew that my podcast would be- I just did it- I just did it because I loved having these conversations with these international students. But now you're telling me that, you know, a lot of people actually love the idea. And I think that further reinforces my belief that I shouldn't let it go, because so many people out there seem to be very interested in it. And at the same time, not so many people out there know of its existence. Because, I think my aim initially was to really enjoy these conversations and have these conversations without necessarily having to advertise it or publicize. Because at the end of the day, you know, having this- this sort of deep connection with someone, or having this- this engagement, I think it's, for me, it's more valuable than wanting to-

Veronika Becher 25:37
Reach thousands of people.

Abdullah Najjar 25:38
Yeah, that is more valuable to me, the idea of the conversation in and of itself, than the actual exposure that that conversation is going to get. But-

Veronika Becher 25:49
I always think reaching just one person is enough.

Abdullah Najjar 25:52
Yeah.

Veronika Becher 25:52
Like, you know how you talked about how you had two listeners the whole time (both laugh), and you didn't know there's a third listener.

Abdullah Najjar 25:58
I didn't know you were the third listener, yeah, my- my- yeah.

Veronika Becher 26:02
Yeah, that's the same. And I just feel like I just want to reach at least one person that might enjoy it or like it, or just whatever, like wherever you are. Like, I have so many friends that live in other countries, and I feel like connecting with them is something so difficult because of the time difference, because of the work we do. Some people are working, others are studying, others have already families and kids, and are married. My cousin just got married-

Abdullah Najjar 26:26
Oh, congratulations.

Veronika Becher 26:28
-literally today.

Abdullah Najjar 26:28
Wow.

Veronika Becher 26:29
I know, right. Yeah, it's fantastic. And I'm just- just realized that sometimes sharing certain conversations is maybe really nice with the world, and whoever wants to listen to it can listen to it, and maybe they can connect like that to me without actually talking to me every single day.

Abdullah Najjar 26:49
Yeah. You know, I was thinking actually of something a few days ago. It was, it was an experience that got me thinking of something. And so I'll share the experience, and then I will talk about what it got me thinking.

Veronika Becher 27:04
Mhhm

Abdullah Najjar 27:04
So the experience is as follows, I was, I was in a coffee shop, few days back. It was, I don't know, I think it was early in the morning. Maybe it was 11, 11 am, and so I was just, you know, enjoying my coffee, enjoying my banana bread, and just reading, you know, I really, I needed, yeah, I wanted to read, and I really wanted to spend some time on my own. And then this, this one guy approaches me, and he was like, just randomly, and he's like, I knew that there would be someone here who would be reading. And then I replied. And I was like, Well, yeah, and if you want to join me, you're more than welcome to do that. And he was like, yeah, no, thank you. I mean, I'll be, I'll be right here. I'll be beside you. But I just wanted to say that. Just wanted to say hi and just, I guess, showcase some sort of appreciation. And there was someone in that coffee shop that was reading, but then, you know, so we start having a conversation together, and, you know, it was a really good conversation. And then at some point, I told him two things. I was like, hey, look, I really, even though I'm really enjoying this conversation, I want to go back to reading my book, but at the same time, I want to have another conversation with you. And I host a podcast that is about Middle Eastern Affairs, again, this podcast that I alluded to earlier, and since you have some sort of military background, maybe we can talk some more about that. And he told me that he wouldn't want his ideas or his opinions to become public. He would be more than willing to have a conversation, just, you know, off the record with me, but he would prefer not to have his ideas or opinions being publicized. And I, and I totally told him that, you know, I respect that, and we don't have to do it. And so I go back to reading my book, but then again, we go back to talking. So we really enjoyed each other's company.

Veronika Becher 28:58
So, you're not getting your break with your book.

Abdullah Najjar 29:01
Yeah no, I feel like I've betrayed my book for a short while, but essentially, what what happened after, you know, he laughed and, you know, after I finished reading. So when he left, I kept on reading, and then I left. But it got me thinking that there are times when even though you really enjoyed the conversation with that person and you had that deep engagement, it's not necessary to have another conversation or another engagement with that person. Maybe there's purpose served. Maybe they served the purpose of having that one moment with you and then just suddenly, you know, they left. And that was the purpose of the whole engagement, which is to be part present in the moment, having that conversation and just, you know, finishing that engagement. And that's it. You know, you might not see each other afterward. You might not even come across each other's paths. But the value is not necessary. Really derived from, again, exposing the public to that conversation, but it was derived from that deep engagement that you guys had, and you shouldn't have to. I think it got me thinking about something else, which is I shouldn't even have to share with people that I host a podcast, right, or that I do these things. If I really want to ensure that I've experienced that engagement to the fullest, I should just maybe end it then and there. You know, it doesn't have to continue. It should just be. It was whole. It was whole, you know, W, H, O, L, E, that's it, you know, we I don't have to have another engagement with that person, because it was their purpose.

Veronika Becher 30:47
It was enough.

Abdullah Najjar 30:48
It was enough. Yeah.

It ties into the conversation we had about meeting people

Veronika Becher 30:53
and we'll let you meeting up today in a coffee shop and just talking about different things and catching up. Yeah, it's been a while, and honestly, I don't know, I feel like we meet people for a reason, and whatever reason it is, if it's positive or negative, it doesn't matter if you help the person in any kind of way, even if we're the smallest reason that you can find that's enough. And yeah, sometimes you don't see people at all. Sometimes you don't need to see them again. And sometimes you see people years later randomly in a bar. Like, I have a, I have a friend from, like, my college experience in Germany, and he said he randomly called me up once, and was like, I just met this guy that I knew, like, from like, a random day in Japan, and he's sitting randomly in the bar in Berlin next to me, and we haven't seen each other for like, five years or something, and we barely knew each other, but this guy randomly was literally sitting next to me in Berlin, even though he's Japanese, and we were not even like in Japan anymore. So, you know, sometimes our paths overlap. If we need to learn something else, it's the same as how the semester is now starting, and so many people are leaving and coming back, and maybe some friends left, some are coming back. New people are coming into the university. And it's just a great experience of getting exposed to new people, new experiences, new faces and new paths that might lead to, you know, just something in life.

Abdullah Najjar 32:30
Yeah, gosh, it reminds me. I think of something I mentioned to you earlier this morning about this, this one professor of mine that I wanted it that, you know, we wanted to grab coffee together before I left to DC, but we never made it. It just it never came to fruition. But essentially, the idea is that we planned, we had an interaction together, then we had funny enough, I was meeting with a friend in that coffee shop. We so my first interaction with him was at the department. Then I was meeting with a friend of mine at this coffee shop, and I saw my professor across the table, and I told my friend, Hold up a second. I really gotta. I want to say hi to my professor. And he told me that the minute I was walking into this coffee shop, I was thinking of you, and our interaction was two days before that, and so he told me again during that get together, when I saw him at the coffee shop, he said, I really want to grab that coffee together, and let's try to make it happen before you leave. We never, we were never able to make it happen. Then, you know, remember when I shared a story earlier, I saw him when I came back from DC, just randomly in the streets, and he looked completely different. He had a, usually he would have a newsboy hat on a vest with a pocket square and some fancy pants. But this time around, he had this cap, you know, rotated very, very minimalist attire,

Veronika Becher 34:03
Casual clothes.

Abdullah Najjar 34:03
Casual, yeah, sweatpants and just this casual sweater. And we walked past each other. We catch a glimpse of one another. I think he recognized me. I think I recognized him, but we did a double take, and then we were like. I was like, Hey, Dr green or Griffin, right? He was like Abdullah! And then we literally just started talking about his trips to New Mexico and about seeing art and about the Caribbean. And we just randomly kicked it off, and he was telling me that he doesn't want to do shit this week, you know, he just wants to take the car to the mechanic and just do, do nothing. And and then he again, we said we gotta grab that coffee together. But you know what? I don't think it's meant to be. I don't think it's meant to be for us to grab coffee. I think we are only meant to come across each other's spats every now and again, maybe in that one coffee shop, maybe out in the streets. But I don't think it's meant to be. And so it goes back again to what we were saying earlier. I think the purpose that you, him and I serve in each other's lives is to come across one another in different contexts, kick off a conversation, and then just leave and we enjoy each other's company. We really do. I mean, we just clicked. And you know, we also you have to consider right, the age gap, right? We're completely I think we have different interests. He's interested in Latin America. I have a lot of interest in the Middle East. He's, you know, he comes from a completely different world, and I come from another completely different world. But I think the only thing that we have in common is that we come from Africa. That's the only thing, or maybe our fashion sense as well, because we both wear newsboy hats, but that's a different story. But essentially, I think our, the purpose of of our presence in each other's lives is to merely come across each other's paths, strike a conversation, and then just leave. And I know that even though I intended to get you know, register for a course with him, I'm sure that's not going to happen. So,

What I'm curious, just a question, yeah, why would you not just stop your day and just grab coffee in the moment when you see each other? Why do you try to schedule it later? It's the same conversation I have of people when they tell me I don't have time. I'm sorry. I'm too busy. I'm busy too.

Right.

Veronika Becher 36:24
When people think I'm not busy, well, they have a misconception of how my schedule looks like. The question is, more, will you find time? I have a friend who I just recently got introduced to through, like, another mutual friend, and he's like, busy, the whole week, super busy, but he found this like one hour slot in his like schedule between working and being on campus and introducing new scholars to the campus. And he's like, okay, yes, I know I'm really busy, but I will give you this one hour. We can just meet up at the library and talk. And I'm like, that's the dedication I want. Yeah. So what I mean is we prioritize different things in life. I'm not saying you should have conversations with everyone. It's the same as you shouldn't date everyone. You shouldn't have a podcast with everyone. It's the same conversation I have with you when I tell you stop making the podcast your life. You don't have to interview people every single time when you meet them. You meet them in real life and then handle it like a podcaster who needs to ask questions at the dining table. You know exactly what I mean? Oh, I know you're mean, but what I mean by that is also it's okay to not always have these deep conversations. And there are certain conversations I would never record on a podcast because I just wouldn't like to publish them. Yeah, they just are so private, and so I don't know, I just don't need them to be published.

Abdullah Najjar 37:52
And they're unique to that one moment, right?

Veronika Becher 37:54
Yes, and it's like when you cherish the moment and you live in the moment, you don't think what it's gonna happen later or next or next week, and if we're gonna see the person again, if it's literally like a situationship that you have of a person for three months, and you know the person,

Abdullah Najjar 38:08
That's a good metaphor.

Veronika Becher 38:08
Yes, and the person will leave in three months and study abroad somewhere else, that's literally what it is. And you know that right now, you're just living in the moment, and you're supporting each other, having deep conversations, but maybe you will never see each other again, and that's how it is, and that's how life sometimes happens to us. But I also feel like if you really wanted to, you could have said, Hey, wait a minute. Do you want to grab a coffee now?

Abdullah Najjar 38:34
Well, that's that's a good idea, but he already had a cup of coffee in his hand. He was going back to his office and I was going to the coffee shop to grab my coffee. It would have been, actually, so that's a good idea. It would have been, maybe there might have been a possibility where I would have said, even though you have a cup of coffee in your hand right now, maybe we should, let's go back. Do you want to go back with me to Cup of Joe? You know, that's, that's a coffee shop that I was going to. It might have worked out. Maybe it wouldn't have worked out, but I think you're on to something here. You know, I think there's a side of me where I'm like, maybe it's not meant to be, and there's another side where I'm like, maybe I should take your advice into-

Veronika Becher 39:16
it's 50, it's 5050, it's sometimes like, I like to say, The universe doesn't want you to be with the person. And you can live on the same street, and for some reason, when the person fulfilled the purpose that they had in life, you will maybe never see your neighbor again. Like you can take a class together, you can study in the same major, and for some reason, for whole semester, not see each other at all, even though you're in the same like street, you live literally next to each other, but you don't see each other as often. But then there are moments when it's the opposite way around. And I feel like there is a thing like wrong place, wrong timing, but also at same time, it doesn't exist. If you want something to happen, sometimes you can work towards it. You just have to bend it in a different way. It's like you need to be committed or improvise, change the flow the way you would usually go. That was such a pretty good statement. Or it can be the other way around. Sometimes just you shouldn't force it. If it's not working, then maybe that's just not what you need. Maybe you think that what you need is the door head of you. My little metaphor, my favorite metaphor. But sometimes you just need to take the window and see that the world out of the window is much better.

Abdullah Najjar 40:32
I like that metaphor.

Veronika Becher 40:33
And yeah, that's exactly how it works. And maybe you'll see you know that your professor, maybe you want, and that's okay. And it's the same with people that you want to be friends with. It can be completely the same situation.

Abdullah Najjar 40:49
And by the way, today I was at my my other professor's office, that one professor I referred to, the one with the coffee guy. He walked past the office. My professor said hi to him, but I was in at an angle where I wasn't visible, and he just walked past the office and he didn't see me. And so it's like we are maybe I maybe even in other instances we were within so we were within close proximity. We were there, but we just didn't know of each other's presence. But maybe one of us knew, or maybe neither of us knew, that we were present. I don't know. It's just you make a very good point about how you should really there are things you can work on, you can change. You shouldn't let it take its course. You shouldn't let life take its course. And there are times when you really have to submit, and you have to realize your limits and what you can and cannot do. And we can control. We cannot control. I know that him and I can't control whether or not we want to grab coffee together, but maybe we want to submit to the fact that, or to the idea, not necessarily a fact that you,

Veronika Becher 42:11
Can find the time.

Abdullah Najjar 42:12
Yeah, we maybe want to submit to that idea, but maybe we shouldn't, right? I remember when you texted me like, Well, I think when I came back or something, I was like, you know, reach out when, if you want to meet up. Well, he said, you want to. You said, let's meet up when you when you go back. And then I may have said, just text me maybe a day before or two days before, and I'll make some time for you. And I think that's, it goes back to what you were saying, like you really, if you really want to see the person.

Veronika Becher 42:49
You prioritize differently. It's the same as you know, when you your family member, your mom calls you, you're on good terms with your mom, hopefully, you probably will prioritize her over someone else

Abdullah Najjar 43:00
Exactly

Veronika Becher 43:01
And it's the same in this is the mental construct that you you know. You build it in your own head. It really depends what you priortize.prio

Abdullah Najjar 43:10
Comparmentalize, prioritize.

Veronika Becher 43:12
Yes, it's true, like it's the same as you know. Of course, if I plan something ahead, three weeks ahead, and I'm completely booked out. I can understand that. And also finding time for yourself is also important. But sometimes we do make the decision actively, and we decide actively, even though we want to kind of put it on something passive, you know, like a passive outcome. Yeah, it's not my fault. Something happened. You know, I was too busy. But in the end of the day, if you're really, really busy, I don't know, 30 minutes. How many hours do you spend daily on your phone? That's what I always imagine. How many hours do you use for something that is so like irrelevant in your life, but you still use it for something, right? Whatever it is. You could use the 30 minutes to meet up with someone, you could call them, you could do something else. You can text them if you really want to. I'm, like, a bad texter. I've heard it so often over the summer, I don't even want to hear it at this point, I don't even know if I should take courses on how to be better texter, because everyone compares me to their parents, like I'm literally, like, born in the 70s or something, and I'm not even sure what's wrong, but I just like short and like concise answers that are just okay. Yes, thumbs up.

Abdullah Najjar 44:29
That's my boss right there.

Veronika Becher 44:31
Yes, it's so bad. And the crazy thing is, people like trying to judge me, and they like, oh my gosh, if I would have met you only over text, I would have been scared of you. You are so dry.

Abdullah Najjar 44:40
I get that with my punctuation, which is why I had to tone it down. I used to text with, like, full blown grammatically correct,

Veronika Becher 44:51
Me too.

Abdullah Najjar 44:51
Yeah, comma, dash, maybe, like a dot over, like a lot of people just pointed that out. They were like, dude,

Veronika Becher 44:58
Yes, it's the same as. Well, like Veronica, do you ever swear I'm like I do every single day, and I usually, if you know me like long enough, you will know I swear in Russian more.

Abdullah Najjar 45:12
I get that for a lot of people who speak a native, like a different language.

Veronika Becher 45:16
I'm just saying Russian just hits differently. It

Abdullah Najjar 45:19
feels more intimate. Yeah, I tell my friends, and I used to say that all the time, I have some good friends, international friends, shout out to them. They're in different parts of the world now, but we always say, you know, it's like in the native language feels so intimate.

Veronika Becher 45:33
Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't really swear in German, though, even though I'm German, I just feel like Germans don't have enough swear words. But in Russian, there's so many of them you can, like, create out of a normal world. It's worth like, you just use a normal word, and then you create a swear word out of it, where you combine the word with swear word and it just hits differently. So whatever it is, just please, dear listeners, whatever you want to try, like, after watching so many video games, so many people probably know Russian swear words, but I'm always telling people, you need to know when to use what swear word. You can't just use all of them. Is it? There's a difference. While in English, it works really well with like, I'm not gonna swear now, but, you know, use almost any swear word, and you can put it in whenever you want. In Russian, you need to know which one you use in what context. And so based on that, this is how you start learning language on a different level. You learn how to swear.

Abdullah Najjar 46:28
I'll tell you a joke here about swearing. My one of my good friends and this, this would sound really hilarious. One of my good friends, we play a funny game. Okay? So we say, say a number. Okay, one would say a number. Say it's, it's, it's eight. And then we, we have to find.

I don't know if I can say that

Veronika Becher 46:50
Before he's already swearing as well as laughing. And I just, I'm just sitting here trying to, like, okay, come to a point. I'm a business major, What's happening.

Abdullah Najjar 47:00
So, what we would do is we would play a game, and it's just when we're bored. And sometimes we do it even when we're texting, like, just bored, I send him a text, say, like, say number eight, and you say number eight, and I have to come up with a swear that would, that would be so it's, it's, we have we you have to say something that you want to shove up somebody's, you know, behind. It's very, very It's weird, it's weird. But we would, we would play that game together. It's, it's metaphorical, but I would have to say, Okay, say that number, and then I have to come up with an like, an object that would match. And I'm, and I'm really sorry, this is very unfiltered, very raw, but this is very good friend of mine. We joke, and I'd have to come up with something that, a word that would have to rhyme with the number, and I'd have to say, shove X. I want to shove X, like whatever it is that word, it has to correspond to that number. And I know you're looking at me very crazy, because you have a different impression of me and how those sort of jokes I use with my friends and all that stuff. But we just literally just come up with a number. I have to come up with, like, a word that rhymes with that number. And, you know, shove whatever it is,

Veronika Becher 48:19
it's okay. I have also, you know, some good humor up my sleeve. It's just, you just have to play Cards Against Humanity with me, and then, oh yeah, German jokes are kind of like part of me. And it's funny because we played just recently Cards Against Humanity. And it was funny because I literally got all the German cards, like all the inappropriate German jokes, and especially being the only German one in the round. It was funny, because when I started pulling out these cards, people just looked at me and were like, Oh my gosh, is she offended? And then it was my card. So honestly, I actually, I was with my other friend, Tanvi. We were like, we were on first place, so we actually kind of won together.

Abdullah Najjar 49:03
Oh my goodness, so you guys were the most vulgar of the group.

Veronika Becher 49:07
No, it was just a good group, and it was a really emotional goodbye to my best friend. And, yeah, it was, it was just a really nice evening in my apartment. So I'm really happy that it worked out. And, yeah, I don't know. So my dear friends, Connecting the Pack, we can't just talk for another two hours. So

Abdullah Najjar 49:30
Especially since one of us has an interview tomorrow, early in the morning.

Veronika Becher 49:34
He was just complaining, I don't know if I want to record anything, and like he talks longer than I am talking. And that's something that is actually quite rare. I cannot speak. I cannot speak today. He's the one with the actual accent that sounds like an American. I'm the one not even.

Abdullah Najjar 49:52
Well, never forget what my friend told you about your accent. And I don't know if we can disclose that here, but it's a good compliment.

Veronika Becher 49:59
It's okay.

You can, you can, you can share the last story of the day with the green frog in your hand.

Abdullah Najjar 50:06
Okay, last story of the day. Oh my goodness. Okay, so this was one of your trips to DC, the second trip.

Veronika Becher 50:12
Oh yeah, it was the second trip. Yes,

Abdullah Najjar 50:14
Your second trip to DC. I had a goodbye party, and, and a lot of my good friends showed up, including yourself. And we had this one guy. He's, he's such an eccentric fella, okay, he's a retired TI agent. He is known as the Mad Dog. And

Veronika Becher 50:36
can I interrupt here?

Abdullah Najjar 50:38
She already wants to jump in.

Veronika Becher 50:39
When I told this my friends, they looked at me, and they're like, are you okay? Veronica, Are you a spy? I'm like, and they were seriously, like, are you okay? I'm like,

Abdullah Najjar 50:51
What do you tell them? What? What did you tell them?

Veronika Becher 50:53
I should say, Yes, um, about the story, or about the get together. Um, about being a spy. But no, I will be bad spy, so it's okay.

Abdullah Najjar 51:01
Yeah, we don't want, I think, I think you, you, you get a lot of the spotlight. And so if you're a spy, that's just a no no. We want someone that's forgettable, that's okay. And no, people wouldn't forget you. So, I think you would be a poor spy.

Veronika Becher 51:18
okay, we had the small pack leaders, so I was one of them for the international orientation day, and yesterday, a guy approached me randomly on the street and was like, Oh, you are a small pack leader. And I'm like, Who are you? So at this point, I'm not surprised if some random people see me on campus, they actually know who I am. And after they will see my face and put the podcast to my face, and then you actually know who I am. They will be really terrified.

Abdullah Najjar 51:45
You would stand out. And so

Veronika Becher 51:47
so I will be poor spy. Yes,

Abdullah Najjar 51:49
You need to to blend in more.

Veronika Becher 51:51
It's okay put a mask on, and maybe I'm gonna blend in better.

Abdullah Najjar 51:55
But yeah, so So the story so, as the story goes, we had so one of you were present. And that wonderful dinner, I had two good friends of mine, one of my good friends, Holly war journalist. I really, I really admire her story and the work that she does, and her husband Ryan and their wonderful daughter, Raven. Ryan, great guy, military background. Raven, a one year old. Okay, yeah, let me get to the crux of the matter. So one of the good the friend that I one of the other friends that I invited was Jim "Mad Dog" Lawler. He was a former guest of mine on the podcast approximately two years ago, and I invited him to our dinner, and he at some point, he made a remark, and he said it was about me. And he said, you know, the first time I met Abdullah, I had no idea that he wasn't American. And, you know, you can't tell because he doesn't have an accent. That's what he was saying. And then he was he, he, he goes to his left, and there was Holly sitting there. She's Australian, and he's like, you have a distinctive accent. And he's like, you know, is it Brit or Australian? And I think later on he had to, I think he referred to you, and he said, some people would consider your accent very sexy. That took the whole room by surprise.

Veronika Becher 53:21
No one expected. I think he just had to comment, you know, about my accent at some point. And I was just sitting there, like, and He repeated it a second time when he was like, oh, but you know, you're German, you have a really sexy accent, like, and I'm just sitting there, I'm like, I never considered German to be a sexy accent. I think Russian sounds better, but that's also like a preference of mine.

Abdullah Najjar 53:46
And you would never, and you mentioned that already, you would never forget that compliment.

Veronika Becher 53:50
I would never forget that. I don't even know if it's a compliment, but I feel like it's even though everyone was a little bit, like, freaked out because of, like, well, you know, it's like a grown man, yeah, because he's an old guy, complimenting the young lady in the room.

Abdullah Najjar 54:09
That's what I call you, young lady, yes,

Veronika Becher 54:11
All the time. And I started calling people mister. It's bad.

Abdullah Najjar 54:17
It's like calling a woman ma'am. She'd be like, my mom is ma'am. What are you talking about?

Veronika Becher 54:22
No, but people like it for some reason, being called mister. The only thing is, I get side looks from like, you know, side looks from other people, and then, like, why are you calling him Mister?

Abdullah Najjar 54:32
Sometimes I like when people call me gentlemen, I'm like, Oh, I feel so refined right now.

Veronika Becher 54:38
So if you ever see Abdullah on the streets. Call him, my gent.

Abdullah Najjar 54:44
that meme with Winnie the Pooh meme, like the drink on the side, and you feel so refined.

Veronika Becher 54:51
I don't want to have the Winnie Pooh. I want to be the, you know, from The Great Gatsby, oh,

Abdullah Najjar 54:57
With Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah. That like Cheers. Oh. I send that sticker to everybody.

Veronika Becher 55:03
Yes.

Abdullah Najjar 55:03
I have that as a sticker.

Veronika Becher 55:05
I want this specific sticker. That's what I want to have. Yeah, and then, no,

Abdullah Najjar 55:11
I feel like we need to prove

Veronika Becher 55:12
It's crazy. We like, every single time we start a podcast episode, we're like, it's okay, it's gonna be a short one. And then we talk for hours. And I don't even know who the heck can actually listen to so many hours of just us talking, rambling.

Abdullah Najjar 55:27
We've got good quality output right here.

Veronika Becher 55:29
Not stop laughing. That's even the worst. And so he just lectured me literally an hour ago. I'm literally my preview for being like, too funny and just too much. And while he's trying, he's like, you have a serious topic on your podcast, you can't just joke around all the time, and then him just sitting there laughing in the corner of the room. So not my fault if something sounds really funny, but yeah, it just proves my point. Germans can be funny.

Abdullah Najjar 55:58
Yeah, they can be.

Veronika Becher 55:58
But today we heard new input. It's called, we have smart jokes, and apparently people are just not smart enough.

Abdullah Najjar 56:07
I saw a meme. I saw a meme two days ago. I should have sent it to you, but essentially it had one side of the picture was with the starfish from Spongebob, and it said, it said, Patrick, yeah, that's the stars. That could be many things, right? The star for SpongeBob. But in, on one side, it had him with, like, sophisticated gear, glasses and, like, just, you know, that torch and everything. And it said Germans when they're making their cars. And then on the bottom, it had him in like, such stupid attire, messy stuff all over the place, and it said Germans when making their language.

Veronika Becher 56:51
Oh my gosh!

Abdullah Najjar 56:51
But, but, yeah, smart jokes. You guys, you guys are smart.

Veronika Becher 56:55
Just next. I'm gonna say, Oh, you're just not smart enough to catch your jokes. I'm gonna offend a whole nation, so maybe I shouldn't do that. Oh, my God.

Abdullah Najjar 57:08
I was like, this meme is hilarious. I don't know. I didn't send that to you.

Veronika Becher 57:12
No, you didn't. Do you know what's funny? When I start sending my friends German memes randomly, or like Russian memes, they start getting more German memes. And apparently the algorithm, like on Instagram was like, Oh, you're German, you get more German jokes. And I think O'Donnell is telling me how she's getting so many German and Russian jokes out of nowhere. And she's like, I don't even speak German. Like, no, that's like, the curse. This is what happens to you, if you like, you know, be if you want to be friends with a German student, and Instagram was like, No, you're German. You speak definitely German. Oh, my God, but it's okay. She tried to infiltrate our German Ambassador Club,

Abdullah Najjar 57:51
Laura Donna?

Veronika Becher 57:52
A couple of times and learning some random German words, okay, but you were also a ghost member of the don't even like mention anything about it.

Abdullah Najjar 58:02
but that's the thing, you know, I really here's a funny thing, another funny story. One of the people that I follow on Instagram, he's like, a, like, a famous model, and he does like stuff that's like, classic wear, or whatnot. When you told me you were from Düsseldorf.

Veronika Becher 58:20
Düsseldorf is the fashion city.

Abdullah Najjar 58:22
Well, that explains

why he's a fashion model, but that's the thing I had. I didn't look at his bio. I didn't know about the I didn't I had no idea that he was from Düsseldorf, but when I met you and you told me you were from that area, I remember like going back to his profile, and it said that he's from Düsseldorf. And I never, I never paid attention to it well, until you told me you're from there.

Veronika Becher 58:44
So many people don't know that Düsseldorf is considered an arts and fashion city, like architecture, fashion and arts next to like Berlin as well as like Milano and Florence, Paris, like the New York, Düsseldorf has actually also fashion shows, really, it does, yes, and we also have, so I don't know the scale, but it's, it's considered a fashion, fashion city. And we also have art a lot of, like, little galleries that are like, spread out through the city. Okay? We have a really old, beautiful Arts Academy that is, like, located in a really old building in the middle of, like the like the city, yeah, the Old Town part of the city. And I just one of my highlights. Like, if you ever in Düsseldorf you need to find an open hour in this academy,

Abdullah Najjar 59:37
Open hour.

Veronika Becher 59:37
And you need to go up to the rooftop, and you will see the whole city. And I always tell people, this is like my hidden spot. People don't know that. And sometimes it's open, and you can just enter the university when it's like an open hour, open house event.

Abdullah Najjar 59:52
I love roof time.

Veronika Becher 59:54
Yes, you will see the whole city, and it's really beautiful. And we have the Rhine River next to it. It's literally next, like the building is next to the Rhine River. But originally, I grew up in aircraft, but it's like a smaller town. It's the founding place of the Neanderthal human being. But actually, you told me about that, but I tell people all the time that I'm from Düsseldorf, because I grew up most of my time in Düsseldorf more than an aircraft. It's like three different stations, literally eight minutes of train rides, and then you're in the big city, even though I grew up next to a ranch and Düsseldorf is next to it. And, yeah, I think it's just easier to explain it. And I've been to Düsseldorf many times. We live next through the city, you can walk there. So at this point, it doesn't make any big difference for me,

Abdullah Najjar 1:00:46
Yeah.

Veronika Becher 1:00:47
But that's just yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 1:00:47
Very strange. It's like, when you know that when, when something Well, I guess it goes back to our, sometimes we have this thing with with, sometimes we have something called, I guess, a sensory overload, right, where you're so overwhelmed by the information and data around you that sometimes you have to focus on the things that matter or the things that you prioritize. So, for example, with with my with this model that I follow most, the only thing for me that matters is the the attires and the the fashion itself, that's what mattered. So there's, obviously, there's a lot of information, right? I mean, there's his name, his bio, and all that stuff and that particular part. But because, I mean, I guess we're wired to connect dots and decipher information in a manner that is simple, right? To make sure that to simplify complex things. So, you know, if we're in this, this room, there's a lot of stuff happening. There's a lot of noise. Well, not necessarily noise. It's, you know, it's a metaphor. There's so much data to try to decipher. So we try to focus on the things that matter with this guy in particular. The thing that mattered to me was, again, the the fashion. But once you brought up this, this, this, you told me about your background and the fact that you were from Düsseldorf, or, I'm sure I'm butchering it, still,

Veronika Becher 1:02:06
No no, it's right.

Abdullah Najjar 1:02:07
But yeah, when you mentioned that, then when I go back to his profile, that thing stands out, right? And it's like when you're walking down the street, you see certain cars, you never pay attention to them. But when say, someone tells you about a particular car or

Veronika Becher 1:02:25
You start paying attention.

Abdullah Najjar 1:02:26
Yeah, you start paying attention. You can start seeing it everywhere, but it was already there.

Veronika Becher 1:02:30
Congratulations on figuring out how marketing works.

Abdullah Najjar 1:02:32
Okay, okay.

Veronika Becher 1:02:33
Sometimes it reminded me. I had to look it up. That's what I was doing on my phone. Oh, okay, there was a movie I really like. It's called Focus. Have you ever heard?

Abdullah Najjar 1:02:41
Yeah, with Will Smith, right?

Veronika Becher 1:02:42
Yes. And that's exactly what I'm always thinking, if you like, I remind like, it reminds me of this one scene where they win this bet with this really rich guy because they can they predict the number of the football player he would like pick on the football field. Yeah, I don't know if you remember that part.

Abdullah Najjar 1:03:03
I haven't seen a movie, but I know

Veronika Becher 1:03:04
Ooh, so okay I'll give you

Abdullah Najjar 1:03:04
A breakdown here.

Veronika Becher 1:03:04
So basically, they, they end up getting into this one bet with a really rich guy and the lady who's accompanying him. She doesn't actually know what's happening? What is happening behind the scenes? So I'm kind of spoiling it for some people. Please watch the movie first before you continue listening to me. You're welcome. So, and I love the movie because specifically the scene and it's they tell him, you can choose any player on the field and pick a number that is, like, on the backs, you know, like, just any player, yeah, and they the lady that's sitting next to well, is like, you need to choose any player on the field. And she's panicking. She's like, how should I even know there's so much money on the like, on the table? How should I even know which one the rich guy picked, you know, and what happens she picks the right guy out of so many people on the field. And the story behind it is they use the effect that they use, or, I don't know if it's not a halo effect, but it's, it's like a tool you use in psychology. In, in business psychology, they will, the whole time showing him numbers with one specific number posters throughout. So his whole trip to the stadium was already predicted because they were influencing his path. They were showing him certain numbers on, like billboards, criminal messages,

Abdullah Najjar 1:04:40
Subliminal messaages.

Veronika Becher 1:04:40
Yes, the whole time this specific number. So in the end, his brain didn't even have to think twice. It saw the player, saw the number, and picked right away the player. And she, for some reason, she was like, she just thought, Okay, this is going to be the player because of the same effect. And they picked the same player and they won the bet. And she was, she was a good, you know, player to be have in the game, because she didn't know anything about what's happening behind the scenes. So she reacted like a normal human being, panicking, being like, I can't do that. You can't just expect me to do that. And well, they won. They won the money because they influenced them so much throughout the day, you need to actually watch the movie, and that, the scene that you you figured out, what would the person do, and predicted it.

Abdullah Najjar 1:05:31
You're leading them to do something. Yes, want them to do yes, yeah,

Veronika Becher 1:05:36
By influencing them in their daily lives, right? Right, right. It's almost like, it's not the example in the movie, but it's like, I'm gonna give you, I will continuously give you like napkins with the same number. I will show you billboards, posters, you everything you expose on social media. The person has, for some reason, the number nine on their like shirt. You see all the time number nine, and then you will automatically choose number nine. It's a it's a thing that we just do. It's the same thing as people use it sometimes in tarot cards. Very funny thing, maybe, yeah, they tell you, this is what you should pay attention to, and then, because you think of that, you stop paying attention to that.

Abdullah Najjar 1:06:16
Or when they tell you don't pay attention to something you feel tempted to want to pay attention to.

Veronika Becher 1:06:20
Yeah, it's like, don't think of the pink elephant.

Abdullah Najjar 1:06:23
Yeah, you think about the pink elephant. That's the thing about there's a sentence in one of my favorite series. It's in House of Cards, and the lead actor goes, the best thing about wanting someone to do something is not telling them on purpose. It's like, a Do Not Enter sign. It just begs you to walk through the door. And so, yeah, this is good. Yeah. It's like you want them. You, you on purpose choose not to tell them or you, you don't want to make it blunt. You avoid on purpose having them do something you want them to do, but you influence them enough to have to do it. And so that's, you know, this is from the lead actor of House of Cards. He's such a power hungry sociopath,

Veronika Becher 1:07:11
Therefore we're having just random conversations about movies on Connecting the Pack. Yes?

Abdullah Najjar 1:07:17
So, again I really, I love that, that that playing around with, playing with someone's mind,

Veronika Becher 1:07:24
Why would you forget the effect. I don't think that's a halo effect. It's a different one, but it's it's a bias. It's like a bias you have. It works the same way even you can influence your own like you can have like a hypothesis, like something, like a theory, and you will predict the theory that is right because of the people you ask, there's so many different biases that just influence you.

Abdullah Najjar 1:07:52
Yeah, there are seven, I think, seven primary biases. I remember taking that on, yeah, when we're talking about, think I took that with, like US National Security course, yeah. And

Veronika Becher 1:08:01
Yeah, you take it same in business, we take it too

Abdullah Najjar 1:08:05
Because we talk about, like, game theory and what is it prisoner's dilemma and things of that nature, that there's always the bias element that we have to go over.

Veronika Becher 1:08:18
But soon back maybe to the actual topic of Connecting the Pack, and why I'm sitting in this chair and maybe not drifting apart randomly. So yes, we're starting this second season. It's gonna be great season, hopefully, and maybe you will randomly hear some episodes that are cross overs between different, you know, podcasts, and maybe some random conversations like that too. So we're expanding a little bit the topic about Connecting the Pack, and one day, what is also a plan to have Connecting the Pack with Abdullah Najjar sitting in the same chair,

Abdullah Najjar 1:08:53
oh boy,

Veronika Becher 1:08:54
and I'm gonna be the one interviewing him, because I feel like the story needs to be out there somewhere.

Abdullah Najjar 1:09:00
Yeah, a lot of people told me I should have my own episode, but being a guest on my own show.

Veronika Becher 1:09:05
Yes, and that's what's gonna happen, because the assistant or stalker Veronica wants to interview him. And even if it sounds right now based on this episode, like it's the most messy episode we've ever had, it's okay. I just hope someone you know at least enjoyed this past hour that we talked, and I hope you're getting more sleep, so

Abdullah Najjar 1:09:27
I'm sure I will be getting a lot more sleep tonight,

Veronika Becher 1:09:30
so we can bring new topics, new conversations, new stories, to the podcast table, to the studios, and hopefully it's going to be interesting for someone.

Abdullah Najjar 1:09:44
Yeah no, I really think it's going to be interesting. And I also want to thank all of those fans that we don't know of who actually are listening to Connecting the Pack and enjoy these conversations that are being highlighted or showcased on the on the show. Okay, and I'm glad that we are not stopping. We will continue moving forward with Connecting the Pack Season Two with our wonderful Veronica. Can you say your last name? I don't want to butcher it again.

Veronika Becher 1:10:13
Veronica Becher. You have all semester to get used to my last name.

Abdullah Najjar 1:10:22
I'll get it right. I'll get it right. But yeah, thank you to everyone who listens to Connecting the Pack and

Veronika Becher 1:10:28
Whoever is moving in right now starting his, their new semester, nervous about being a freshman, or maybe nervous to be senior, that everyone thinks they are freshmen, literally,

Abdullah Najjar 1:10:40
i.e. you.

Veronika Becher 1:10:41
No, that's literally me. So if you see me with nowadays an NC State black, NC State head, and you think I'm the one who's talking, you know, with a sexy accent, I'm joking. I'm joking, having too much fun. Yes, embrace that. Oh my gosh. I think I just see the comments saying, like you don't have a sexy accent. It's okay. I don't have to have a sexy accent for everyone. I don't want to date all of you guys. But basically, basically, sorry, I need to hold myself back. Basically, I hope you have a great start into your new year, and if you see this one random girl that looks like a freshman, I'm a senior and I'm not a freshman, so just have a good start. Relax. Don't stress too much over the weekend, because my professor also sent me today an email already notifying me of the syllabus and the hard work I have to go through next semester. So yeah, I just hope that it's gonna be a great start and enjoy Packapalooza. Enjoy the first week. Tally Takeover is literally in a day.

Abdullah Najjar 1:11:47
Wait what? Enjoy that. Yes, one of your one of the co-hosts, probably will not be attending, but

Veronika Becher 1:11:55
It's okay. I know it's like Abdullah. Have you been to this cafe? Have you been to this place in Raleigh? And he looks at me, what is this place? And I'm like, you lived here longer than I did. Well, kind of and you don't know what this place is, you need to explore more. So I hope, if you're one of these people that think they're gonna study only, please find your mental well being or take it serious, not find it and explore a little bit outside of campus, but also not too much, because we still want to, you know, get good grades and have a wonderful year. So have both have also work life balance. Be a German. Feel like a German, sometimes not like an American. Yeah. And if all some of your professors is telling you Veronica, you know is strange for saying that you can always quote me and be like but this girl on the podcast Connecting the Pack said, be German.

Abdullah Najjar 1:12:55
That's I love that. Let's that's one way to wrap up the conversation. Thanks for doing this, Veronica.

Veronika Becher 1:13:04
You're welcome. Be German, feel good, find your time. Have some free time, enjoy, take your well being serious, and thank you so much for this episode. Bye, bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai