Connecting the Pack

Abdullah Najjar 0:01
Welcome to WKNC. This is your host Abdullah Najjar. And in today's episode of Connecting the Pack, I am joined by Vikram Rutter making sure I got it, pronounced it correctly. So Vikram is a student from India, who recently transitioned to NC State. But he's, his, he primarily studies in France, and he's currently on an exchange program. So it would be interesting to learn more about his background, the decision he made what reasons behind making the decision of showing up to the US. And, obviously, we'll try to also understand why he chose to go to France as well. So without further ado, Vikram, welcome to the studio.

Vikram Ratour 0:57
Thanks, man. Thanks. Thank you for having me.

Abdullah Najjar 0:59
Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have here. So I, first off, you do have an interesting story, I think, you know, I never really, most of the Indian students I met here have studied in India, and then came to the US to pursue a, I think, a graduate program. But you have an interesting story in the sense that you chose to pursue your undergrad in France, and then now you're in the US. So how about you share with me and the audience, the reasons behind choosing to leave India to go to France, and pursue your undergrad in France.

Vikram Ratour 1:45
So like to give you a little bit of backstory about my father, because like, he's the one who was, say, like the first generation who left our family to study abroad. And then he set us on a path to for me and my sister both to like, go to abroad study abroad and have like, our higher like, after our high school, all of our higher education from some Institute outside India. So this was about, I would say, 1990s, when he decided to do his PhD from Rogers University. So he finished his bachelor's, he did his master's in India, then he moved to Rogers for his PhD, that is if I'm correct, like somewhere New Jersey, or like Masachusetts. So, I mean, he had like this idea of being independent and like living by yourself, which not a lot of people in India get to experience because it's like, the norm is people would do their studies, get a job and live with their family. And when I say family, it's not just their wife and their kids, it would be their , like parents, it would be it could be their, like brothers and sisters, who are already married, but it's like a big family situation in India. So my father, so like, after I finished my high school, my, it was like, already, I was already set on a path to go to abroad, right. But how I ended up in France, that's a little bit of like, I didn't have a choice. I didn't have a choice, but it was the circumstances which I faced. So I'm from COVID batch, I finished, like I finished my high school right around when the COVID hit when so I had my exams in March of 2020. And that's exactly when the lockdown happened. So that's why like, our results were delayed. No one knew what they would do, like how the colleges would work out, everyone was figuring out how things would go about right. So I applied to initially I was gonna go to Australia. So I applied to this university called Q.U.T. Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, I got accepted. I had the degree like I was going to pursue the degree I wanted. It was a double degree in mass communication and Business Administration. And everything was like pretty much set, and that's when the government announced that okay, we are going into the lockdown because there's this virus going about. So, I was like oops. But the the thing was, my sister was already in Australia, she's doing her doctor, like, she's going to become a doctor. She I think she's already a doctor now.

Abdullah Najjar 4:28
Congratulations.

Vikram Ratour 4:29
She thanks she graduated, like, two months ago, I'd say she finished her semester and they'll have the ceremony and everything in like few months, whatever. So so she told me that there's this news going around in Australia that they might not open their international borders. For enter for like anyone commuting to or from Australia until 2025. I was like, Oops,

Abdullah Najjar 4:54
That's disappointing.

Vikram Ratour 4:55
Yeah. So now the whole thing crashed. My offer letter, but I can't go to Australia because the regulations. So my next best option is to start studying online. Right? But I thought like if you're paying north of like five to $10,000 each semester, and you're doing it online, like, is it worth the value? Maybe, maybe not. So I started looking into the universities, which were offering on campus education, which would offer me the same degree. But let me be on campus to get the student life and everything. So this is around the timeline would be September of 2020. And I started looking into the other universities as soon as I got my results back. And Skema was one of the first universities to like, get back to me. And they were like, okay, Euro is the region with which like, there are some business schools which are offering on campus education. So you can like, come to our university, and there will be fewer restrictions in terms of like your movement and everything. But you can basically like, come come to our country. So that's when Skema replied to me, I decided to take the leap. And that's how I ended up in France.

Abdullah Najjar 6:08
Wow. So some members of the audience would not know I think what what Skema is? So how about you tell us what is Skema? You mentioned that it's in France, is that? Is that a college university? Like a program? What is it exactly?

Vikram Ratour 6:27
So I would like to break down it as it's like master, and not exactly like a master, but it's like they have these business schools. So the full name is Skema Business School, is essentially a business school. It's not a university, so they don't offer other courses apart from business. So it's like very focused and very, like streamlined program. They offer masters and bachelors both, but it's like very specific to business courses. And they kind of specialize in it. And that's where they're, like, really reputed within France. So, and they also have like, a lot of tie up with other partnered universities abroad. And they have like a really good network of colleges.

Abdullah Najjar 7:08
Yeah. So when, okay, you moved to France? How old were you at the time when you move to France?

Vikram Ratour 7:15
I just turned 18. So I was like, lucky enough to not have any of the problems with legal guardian.

Abdullah Najjar 7:23
Oh, yeah. Lucky you. So so you moved to France? Before moving out did you have any expectations about what you were gonna be facing in France, I guess in terms of culture, school, education?

Vikram Ratour 7:38
So I kind of talked to a few of the students are like the alumni of Skema, business school, and I had this expectation of like, okay, it will be like strictly study oriented, you will have your courses and then that's about it. Like there is no student life. There is nothing to be expected from the university, which is, I think it depends on the person. It depends from person to person on how they approach the university, but that was like my, my preconceived, say, like notion or like idea about about Skema in France in general.

Abdullah Najjar 8:14
Okay. And so when you showed up, you realized that it's, it's more than just, you know, it's not just exclusively about academics, there's more to explore.

Vikram Ratour 8:26
Yes, definitely. I mean they have a lot of students clubs they have like, so like, Europe, in general is like, very good with their sports.

Abdullah Najjar 8:35
Yeah.

Vikram Ratour 8:36
So I'm not talking about like, as big as in the United States, but they have like, the professional school. They're like professional teams, and like, they compete on really high level. Like some of my classmates currently are like, national champions in weightlifting in Paddle Tennis. Like one of the guys like France's, he won, like, best. He was like the top top player of like France within his age category in like, Junior category.

Abdullah Najjar 9:02
Yeah.

Vikram Ratour 9:02
So there are like a lot of talented sports people in Skema. Wow.

Abdullah Najjar 9:07
Well, I mean, so you, you decided to go abroad outside at the age of 18. To live outside of India. Based off of what I understood for from from your father's experience, and your your your family's, I guess encouragement. It seems like not a lot of Indians at the age of 18 decide to go abroad. In a sense, you might be the exception. Would you think that's an accurate assessment?

Vikram Ratour 9:42
Oh, I would like to break it down into like a to give you a better understanding of how our education system is in India.

Abdullah Najjar 9:48
Okay.

Vikram Ratour 9:49
So, for High School. So, India is like a massive country, and they have like a lot of states, right, a lot of different languages. So our education system is divided into like, three categories. So it is it's like there are like three education boards. So each state has their own State Board, who teach them like the regional in the regional language. And they decide on what curriculum to teach. Then we have us, then we have what we call is CBSE, Central Board of Secondary Education, which is like the central board, which there is like, there will be each, there will be one, or at least like two or three schools, which follow CBSE curriculum, which is like the central education system, basically. And then we have ICSC, which is like the international standard in which is controlled by the British education board, right. So depending on which school you go to, you will have like a certain courses and like language subjects, which you will have to take, but a lot of students from CBSE board do end up in abroad. But like the majority of population India, go to state board.

Abdullah Najjar 11:04
Wow.

Vikram Ratour 11:05
So I'm talking about like, lower middle class to people living around like, below poverty line.

Abdullah Najjar 11:14
This okay, this is incredible. No, seriously, it is incredible. What for? So you chose. So technically, the decision to go to either Australia, or France, would you say that's not typical? Like the typical decision would be go to the UK, maybe?

Vikram Ratour 11:35
It would mostly be all of the English speaking countries. So you will find a lot of Indian students like I don't think there are a lot of Indian students doing bachelors abroad. There might be like a big chunk of them. But like the majority, as you said, like post or post grad, right? Yeah. So more the first choices of people would be either Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand, and a few other English speaking countries with which I'm missing.

Abdullah Najjar 12:05
Wow. Okay, let me let me let me you're trying to bring it back to the the reality of living in France. So I'm sure. Needless to say that the culture in India or the region you came from in India is very different than a culture that you are exposed to in France. So what how about you share with us a little bit about the the the, the ability to communicate the ability establish relationships with with your fellow students or fellow French people? Was it easy? Was it hard? I mean, what was that like.

Vikram Ratour 12:50
Okay, so I was taking this French class with this professor, her name is Nellie Montessori, I hope she doesn't mind me calling her out on the podcast, shout out to your professor. So she gave us this analogy of people. Like there are two types, types of people in the world, coconuts, and peaches. So the basic idea is coconuts are the type of people who are hard on the outside, but you get the cream on the inside, but to to reach to the fruit, you have to like, put efforts into it. So you have to hammer the coconut several times. Right? So developing relationships with people in France, or in Germany, or like there are a few other examples. It's, they're more towards the coconut side of the spectrum. So if you want to, like they will be like really good friends with you. You will have like lifelong friends. But the thing is, it depends on how much effort you put into it. So say for example, if I want to be friends with my local cafe, like the cafe owner, right? So I'll have to go there several times, like two or three times to make sure that he feels that not necessarily I'm a local, but I'm at least putting some effort into the relationship, and then he'll open up to me. Whereas Indians, I would say most people in America are towards the peach side. So they're like, they're very warm to you. They welcome you. They're soft already. So you can like just, you'll just like go and mingle with them. So I think you I mean, you can tell from your experience that it'd be like, if you ever tried to speak to not necessarily an Indian, but anyone who's on the peach side of the things. Yeah, it's like they will like instantly become friends.

Abdullah Najjar 14:33
It's easier. Yeah. Wow. So so when that that testimony, your professor your professor testimony is is that coming from a French person or someone who is international outside of France?

Vikram Ratour 14:51
She She is her her background. She's Russian. Oh, she studied in US for 10 years. Then she went to Spain, and now she's teaching French in France.

Abdullah Najjar 15:03
Oh my

Vikram Ratour 15:04
It's a little bit complicated, but she's a lovely and like really, really smart person.

Abdullah Najjar 15:08
Another shout out to your professor. Well, okay, so did the community, your say that you were surrounded by in France? Would you say that was it was primarily an international community or was it? Like, like some roughly a balanced community where you have internationals and French students?

Vikram Ratour 15:34
So our business school, I would say the split was around. We had like 200 students in our batch, and around 15 were international.

Abdullah Najjar 15:44
Wow.

Vikram Ratour 15:44
And the rest everyone was either from France, or countries surrounding France, like Morocco, which had their education in like French right they're French. We had people from Tunisia, Libya, Morocco, who could already like speak French.

Abdullah Najjar 16:00
I reckon Algeria, right instead of Libya, because Libyans do not. They, they they either either taught in Arabic or English, I'm sorry for saying that. No I just wanted to clarify that point. But I think you're right. Yeah. Most of the some of the North African countries wouldn't be typical. You would you probably find them there.

Vikram Ratour 16:20
So most of my classmates were from, like, these backgrounds. We had few Chinese students, we had someone from Lebanon as well. And there were a few other nationalities. I'm sorry, if I'm missing you guys.

Abdullah Najjar 16:35
That's Wow. Okay. Well, that's, that's incredible. So you spent how many years in France?

Vikram Ratour 16:43
So I spent my sophomore and my freshman year there. So that's two years.

Abdullah Najjar 16:48
Wow. Yeah. And what, where where in France? Where are you? Where are you located? Located? Exactly.

Vikram Ratour 16:56
So this like beautiful town called Lille in North of France, which is like, one hour train journey away from Paris. Okay. It's, it's right on the border of Belgium, quite close to Brussels, like Brussels is only like 30 minutes right. So it's not exactly on the coast, but like, in like Northern, it's, it's a northern region.

Abdullah Najjar 17:19
Yeah. Wow. And and did you find yourself easily adapting to the community or to take a long time before you became, you know, it became easy for you to actually navigate the French community?

Vikram Ratour 17:38
So I was lucky enough to have an experience to live with the French family for two years.

Whoa!

Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 17:47
So you were actually living with a French family?

Vikram Ratour 17:50
Yes.

Abdullah Najjar 17:51
Oh, my congratulations. That's incredible

Vikram Ratour 17:54
That was an experience. It was like really good experience.

Abdullah Najjar 17:56
How did that happen? I thought you would probably be living in a dorm or something.

Vikram Ratour 18:00
Yeah. So that was the plan, like, initially. So Lille has a massive student community in terms of there are like a lot of universities in and around Lille. And like a majority of population is students. So it's really, really difficult to find a place when you're moving in. So my initial idea was, I will stay in a hotel hotel room, try to find a place, which suits me because I couldn't get the dorm room on campus.

Abdullah Najjar 18:30
Yeah.

Vikram Ratour 18:30
So I was like, okay, instead of just like, going for a random place, looking online, and then like, just enrolling for it, I would much rather visit it in person, and then move in, right. So I lived for like about two weeks in Airbnb, which was a whole other shenanigans. But let's not talk about it.

Abdullah Najjar 18:49
Oh man. Okay we'll avoid that

Vikram Ratour 18:51
Yeah. And then I met this person who had a room available in in their house. So their French family, they had a room available, they were very welcome to open to like, rent it out to an international student. And that's when I moved in with them. And that started my journey in France.

Abdullah Najjar 19:12
This is, man, this is fascinating. So you actually got you were from the from the first we'll say, not the first day, but from the early stages you are already exposed to, I guess, maybe a typical family situation in France. So you may have understood more about their, like the formation of bonds and you know, their, what it's like to be in a French community in a French family. What did that so the relationships through were they similar to how your family relationships are like or like, you know, India in general, how would you describe it

Vikram Ratour 20:00
Luckily, the person, I would say like he, he's like a really good friend. But I'll just like, for the sake of it, I'll quote him as a landlord. So basically, this landlord has been to Germany for his higher education. So they have already had an international exposure in terms of, so they would not like a typical, like you would generalize as a french french person, okay, they have already had, like quite a bit of exposure to other cultures. And they studied in political science. So pretty, pretty smart as well, in terms of having ideas about other cultures and what the differences are. So it was really easy for me to get along with them, because they understood the place where I was coming from, and how difficult it was for me to, like get involved in in France and like, get the cultural exposure.

Abdullah Najjar 20:55
Wow. So you would say that they have certainly assisted you in navigating Oh, for sure for sure. Wow, very, very generous of them. So, I would love to explore that more with you. But I think we should also give some some justice to your experience in the US, right. So. So after, so after two years, you you transition to the US? How did that? How did you? Well, first off, what motivated you to show up to the US? I mean, is it is there campus here that you felt was better than other campuses, then Skema offered or like this, this exchange opportunities worth it? Okay, tell me about that.

Vikram Ratour 21:41
So it's kind of funny, like, Skema expects us to go on this international mobility for our third year to get some international exposure, even though I'm an international student already? Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 21:54
Yeah, it's good, good.

Vikram Ratour 21:56
So we had a few options to go to different countries. And for me, the only exposure I've had to the west is, would be from where I'm assuming most people have, like Hollywood and Netflix, and you see all of these movies and media and I mean, US is US is a is a lovely place. So I never had this hands on experience with it apart from like, looking at on screen or hearing stories from people, or like my father for, for that example. So instantly, for me, it was a no brainer, because it's an English speaking country, I've had my higher education in English, it would be really easy for me to like, get in and around us. So apart from that, I knew that they had this tie up with NC State. And I looked it up online. I saw NC State, I saw the community, I saw the campus and I was like, Man, I want to be like, Okay, so we're going to the States.

Abdullah Najjar 22:54
Wow. Now, I'm sure you made the right decision. What was did you have? Well, I was gonna say, did you have any expectations? What I'm sure you did from your exposure to movies, right? I mean, do you think what you knew about Americans or the US kind of was in line with the reality that you're now witnessing? Or what how could you? How would you describe it?

Vikram Ratour 23:19
It's funny, and I don't know, like, quote, another fruit or vegetable analogy for that matter. But US is like an onion. So on surface, you see, okay, okay, it's attractive, it's fun, it's a vegetable, but then it has like so many layers when you cut it open, right? And initially, from media, you get just the top layer of it, you don't understand the depth of what the culture is in United States, and how important it is for them to experience the college and the college life and sports and religion. And I don't know, like TV reality for that example.

Abdullah Najjar 23:54
Oh wow.

Vikram Ratour 23:55
So I was like, okay, this would be interesting. So, initially, when I started to, like, experience all of these things, and I started to cut open the onion, it, it turned out to be like, most of the things which we see on media channels. And like in movies, it's very generalized. I'm not saying that they're not necessarily true. But it's, it's, it doesn't explain the depth of what is what you can experience in here. So if there are people listening to this podcast who want to, like have this experience, I would say definitely, like, it'd be like a really good exposure for you to come to the States or like have an exchange program here, live here for a while and see it for yourself.

Abdullah Najjar 24:41
Wow, I will start using this this onion metaphor. Whenever I describe the US. Well, you know, it's there's there's so I think there's so much to explore with the here in terms of stories and lessons learned. Because we're short on time. I would love to you know, wrap up up with a couple more questions. One would be related to lesson or lessons learned from from your experience so far, what do you think is something that was truly valuable about the, this this mobility period that you're experiencing right now, whether it be things you learned from your mobility period in France, or in the US valuable lessons,

Vikram Ratour 25:31
I would say, it's not necessarily life advice. But it would be like, I developed in such a way that I wouldn't have if I was in India, to, to like, basically like to dilute or simplify it. Right? Like, I got to experience so many things, so many different cultures, I got to meet like so many amazing stories, people with amazing stories. So like it, it shaped my character in such a way which would not have been possible in India. So the life lesson or like, going back to my father, I think, like he made the right decision to put us on the path to go abroad, to experience all of these things. Because there's such a big world outside of your home country. So like moving out and being independent, making my own decisions, how to live life on like day to day basis, what to eat, where to go, how to how to spend your time, that was really, like, important and life changing for me in terms of moving abroad.

Abdullah Najjar 26:37
That's very admirable. No, I truly, I truly admire your father's efforts, and I think they are coming into fruition. Well, here's, here's a question to wrap things up with. Where do you think your next journey would lead you? You think it will still be in the US or somewhere else somewhere else that is exotic

Vikram Ratour 27:04
I mean so far, I've enjoyed US so much that I'm really considering to do my post graduation in United States after I finished my bachelor's in France, maybe get like a few years of work experience and then come back to US if that's possible, like that would be the ideal case scenario. If not, then I'll tell you where I am.

Abdullah Najjar 27:26
Sure. Well, Vikram, I want to thank you for your time and for joining me. I truly enjoyed our conversation today.

Vikram Ratour 27:32
Thank you so much.

Abdullah Najjar 27:35
All right.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai