Connecting the Pack

Abdullah Najjar 0:00
All right, welcome to WKNC. This is Abdullah Najjar and in today's episode of connecting to pack, I am joined by Viktoriia with a K Tcachenco. I guess that's how it's pronounced.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 0:13
Yeah, you're close.

Abdullah Najjar 0:15
Okay, it's good. So, so Viktoriia is a student here at NC State University. She is doing an exchange program. But she primarily studies in France in the Skema Business School

will we will explore her journey or educational journey and, and the reasons or the motivation that brought her here to the US, in addition to some of the lessons that have been learned and some of the memorable experiences. So, Viktoriia, welcome to the studio.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 0:51
Hey, thanks for having me here.

Abdullah Najjar 0:53
Absolutely. So, how would you rate my pronunciation of your last name on a scale of 10?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 1:00
That was like seven out of 10.

Abdullah Najjar 1:03
How about you try to pronounce your last name?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 1:06
Okay, so it's Tcachenco.

Abdullah Najjar 1:08
Okay. Tcachenco.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 1:10
Yeah, that was better. That was was good. That was a solid nine,

Abdullah Najjar 1:13
Solid nine improvements. And you mentioned that this is a very, it's a typical Ukrainian last name.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 1:20
It's very common in Ukraine. So as I've mentioned, like around 300 sovereign people in Ukraine have the same family name as me. But it doesn't mean that they are my relatives. No, no

Abdullah Najjar 1:31
Oh, right. Right.

And like you said, it's like the Smith name your the Smith last name.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 1:35
Exactly.

Abdullah Najjar 1:38
So, tell me, before we even talk about your your journey in the US, I would be interested to know about your your your travels, because you mentioned before, when we were having a conversation that you've been traveling since the age of 12, I believe?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 1:57
Well, those were like educational travels. So I've started traveling in the very early age, thanks to my parents. Yeah. But I've started the educational travels since I was 11.

Abdullah Najjar 2:09
Wow. Wow. And how many countries have you traveled to?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 2:16
Like, in general?

Abdullah Najjar 2:17
Yeah. Wow, that you can't even put a finger on. That's just like it's a lie.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 2:21
Well, that's not that many, you know, like, I'm only 19 yet. So I really have a lot to explore. And I still have a lot of countries that I haven't been to yet. Right. But so far, I've been to like 35 countries. Wow. This is like an approximate number. I'm not sure.

Abdullah Najjar 2:38
Oh, my goodness, that's, that's more than one could achieve in a lifetime. Well, congratulations. I think that's there's a lot of, there's a lot of value to travel, and a lot of lessons to learn. What was your first experience like? I mean, you say you were 11? What was that? Like? I still remember?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 2:59
Yeah, I do remember that well, because that was my first like big travel. And I went to the Great Britain to England, by myself.

So I was studying, like, in a small town, not far from London, during the months. So it was like in a school in a boarding school alone. I was 11. And, you know, I really had to experience like all this cultural shock, you know, the language barriers, the communication barriers, like everything at once.

But that was definitely a very valuable experience for me. And I guess that if it didn't happen, that time, I wouldn't be sitting here. Wow. Yeah. And like, I was really sensitive that time. Because I was like, again, I was 11. You know, right. I'm mean, I have an older, like, I have three siblings. And one of them is my younger brother. He's 10. So he's nearly the same age, as I was back then. And I'm looking at him and he's like a child, you know. So I can't imagine him being like in London, or whatever the city was, by himself for like, months, you know, in a completely strange in a completely random country, with random people with the foreign language and everything. So that was that was a challenge for me. But yeah, again, I'm grateful for that experience. Because now I'm sitting here

Abdullah Najjar 4:30
Yeah, yeah. I mean, what is is that in something that is common in Ukraine for for parents to send their kids abroad at an early age or are your parents the exception here?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 4:42
It's, it's not common. But again, as I've mentioned, during our like, previous conversation, my parents they have a big emphasis on education. Yeah, for them. It is really important is very crucial. And you know, when

comes to the education, they would spend a lot of resources, the time and everything for the education. Yeah, when it comes to like, presidents or just some, like, you know, I don't know, random stuff. No, no, we had, like, my parents are strict, you know, but when it comes to education, they are they are,

they would like really provide a lot of stuff. And they would want the kids to have the best, you know, and to experience the best and to get the best education. So, wow. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 5:31
But in what? So did you make a trip every summer to pursue, you know, an educational opportunity? Or?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 5:39
Well, some. Yeah, that was like every summer. And then when I was like, 13, I did that also during the Christmas holidays. So I would leave like in a host family for the Christmas. But yeah, but then it stopped, I stopped. When the COVID started. Yeah, I was actually planning to go to Canada back in 20, like 2019. But then the COVID happened, and I couldn't go. So since then, I didn't go anywhere, because then I had my, like, high school and I was a senior. So I had to do like a big final exam, which is like, SAT here. Um, and then I was applying to, you know, the universities and everything. So I didn't do that since then.

Abdullah Najjar 6:24
Yeah. And do you actually research these, like, what country you want to go to next? Or is it very spontaneous?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 6:34
I never knew where I would go. Like, my parents were responsible for that, wow, they would plan my trips, they would plan my kind of educational trip. And I would just do it. And very often, they would do like a trip, that would be like, one two months, during the summer, and I would go in different countries. So that would be like two weeks here, two weeks there. Three weeks there. And I would just do this. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 7:02
Wow. That's, incredible. That's just yeah. And, I mean, you never talked to them about this, this pattern? Like, you never do know why it all started. Why what's where is that stemming from this motivation to want to send you abroad to like, pursue education? I mean, I mean,

Viktoriia Tcachenco 7:30
it sounds like I've never talked to them or like something. But no, of course, I've discussed that was them. And we had a lot of discussions based on that subject. So I'm pretty sure that my parents wanted me to study abroad since like, I don't know what age but they always wanted me to study abroad, especially on terms of the university, they really wanted me to go study abroad. And they knew that, you know, there shouldn't be like, some background for me to do that. Because, you know, I guess if I didn't do those summer studies, it would be so much harder for me to move to France, and then to move here again, and, you know, like to overcome these issues once again. So, I guess they knew then. And plus, it really helped my language. You know, I guess if I didn't have all those studies, I wouldn't have the opportunity to talk to real people, you know, because in school, we had the language courses, of course, I had like, extracurriculars, I had all this stuff, and I had to learn the language. For me, it seems that I was learning some foreign language all the time. But the real experience the real time when I really had the opportunity to talk to real people, and especially the peers that was that time when I was doing my summer studies. So it kind of helped me to overcome the language barrier and you know, just to talk randomly to people and I had no troubles talking in French or in English when I moved to France so

Abdullah Najjar 9:05
Is there something that you carried with you every I mean, obviously passport whenever you travel, that's an essential but is there something significant that is always accompanied you throughout your your your travel journeys?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 9:27
Well, I don't know passport, money, cash, right. There wasn't something specific, you know, because again, like coming back to my parents, they were they are not really how would I say this correctly? You know, so even like I could say phone, but at that time I didn't have one. And well, later I got one but it wasn't really nice. So you know, I had troubles like even taking the pictures with that phone so I can't really say phone Yeah, um, but Yeah, I mean, I had my luggage. Some of my stuff. No, there was no it's like specific stuff that I always carried with me. No,

Abdullah Najjar 10:06
Yeah nothing that is like, say have a great sentimental value?

No, no, no

What I mean? Okay, so you said there in COVID? You have to pause this, obviously, because of travel restrictions, right? How did that feel like? I mean, it must have been the first ever year when you just, you know, you didn't have the opportunity to leave? How did you handle that?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 10:32
Um, well, you know, there were like, the things that I had to think about, like, you know, just the health and everything, and just what to do with my life and etc, etc. So, while of course, I was upset that I didn't go, but there were some other stuff that I had to think about. And I mean, simply, I was trying to figure out what to do during my summer when it was staying. And when we all were locked, you know? So that was the question that we were all were thinking about. But I can say that I, you know, I was like, Oh, my God, I'm staying inside of the country. What should I do? No, no, that wasn't the case.

Abdullah Najjar 11:13
Wow,

Viktoriia Tcachenco 11:14
it was just more of that, you know, we all were locked at home. Yeah. And we just didn't know what to do. Like, in general, we couldn't leave the house, and we couldn't really, you know, have fun and go outside and meet people and use the public transportation, etc, etc. So like, really had to figure out what to do. You know, just to kind of entertain our selves. Yeah. So I wasn't really thinking about like, Oh, my God, I didn't go to like Canada or whatever, so

Abdullah Najjar 11:43
Right, right. And do you think it throughout these, these these, these journeys that you've spent abroad? Did it that make it easier to make friends or that make it harder? Since you're always you're constantly moving?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 12:00
This is a very good question. Because, well, personally, I'm more like an introvert. So for me, it's a bit harder to make friends. Yeah. And you know, when you say, friends, well, for me, a friend is a person who's always there for me, it's like, it's more than a friend, you know. So it's like a person that is always ready to help me that is always there that I can share anything with this person. So I can't say that it was making friends, because we were just seeing each other for that time period. And then, you know, we just left, and we were just going back to our home countries. And that wasn't the case that we're really kept in touch. I mean, I am subscribed to all of them on Instagram. If it tells you something, but we didn't really, you know, become really, really good friends.

Abdullah Najjar 12:51
Yeah, I would imagine that it would be difficult, since it's, you know, you're constantly moving. And, you know, establishing these contacts or connections would be or deep connections, rather, it would be hard.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 13:04
And like, also, there were a lot of people, most teenagers that would come with their friends.

Abdullah Najjar 13:11
Yeah.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 13:12
So they would come was the people they already knew. And sometimes they just didn't want to make any new friends. There were a lot of people like that they would come like was their sister or brother? Or with their friends. So we just, they would just stick together all the time. And, you know, they would not really accept anyone else in their, like little circle. So

Abdullah Najjar 13:33
right, yeah, that they already. I think there's a downside to that, because you never really experienced discomfort. And I think through discomfort you experience growth?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 13:43
Of course. Yeah. Well, a lot of children, a lot of teenagers, young people who were doing that they were forced to do that by their parents. So a lot of them didn't really want to be there, you know. So there's, for some, it was an opportunity, like for me, but for some people, it was like a punishment or you know, just like you know, go study you want have fun this summer, you should study in. So are some people it wasn't really opportunity. It was like a we have to be here, because our parents paid for this. And we just have to be here.

Abdullah Najjar 14:18
Wow. And when in Ukraine, did you since since you, you know, most of your travels during the summer? Was it? I mean, was it easy to make Ukrainian for instance, you know, most of the time to year you're there but you know, in summers, you get to leave? How How? How would you describe describe the sort of friendship situation in Ukrainian?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 14:43
Um, well, I had my school friends. Because we were studying, you know, from the fall up to the May, we were all kind of staying together. We will go into school. We were seeing each other every single day, and we would spend the weekends together. Yeah. And then most of my Ukrainian friends, like from school, they would go travel during the summer or, you know, they would, I don't know, visit their grandparents. So most of them wouldn't be in Kyiv. So that's where I'm from in town. So it wasn't really the case that everyone was like staying at the same place. And, you know, I was like, the only one like the outlier, who didn't have the chance to hang out with all the rest right now. Everyone was like busy, and everyone was traveling or doing some stuff, so

Abdullah Najjar 15:35
And let me ask you this, why did you choose France as a cause that's where you primarily study, right? Why France out of say, 195 countries?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 15:48
Well, that is a very interesting question. And there's a very long story behind that. So I'll try to you know, shorten it. So at first, when I was doing my studies, I was kind of doing those studies in English. So that was my third language, because first two are Ukrainian and Russian. So I was always studying in English, and I was practicing in English. And so my target was English. But then I remember, we were traveling was my parents in France, we're just traveling, we decided to go to France, to the island of course. So at that time, my dad, he knew that I had French as one of my foreign languages at school, because when we came to the middle school, we had to choose another foreign language. So we had like English as the first foreign language. But we also had to choose another one. So I had French, but I hated it so much, you know, like, I was just, I didn't skip the classes, but I was not really doing something in the classes. I, you know, I didn't like the French classes. And well, I didn't enjoy it. So when we went to France, and my dad knew that I had French classes back at school. He was just like, you know, go talk to some random people. I remember, there was like, a holiday or something. There were like, a lot of people there was like a huge crowd outdoors. There were like, some policemen. And he was like, go talk to the policeman, go find out, like, what's happening here, go talk to some random people, come on, practice your French. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like, I don't talk French, I don't know a word in French, you know, it was like, just Bonjour, or like, some stuff like that. And, you know, he, like my dad, he would usually put me in those really discomfort situations for me to you know, like, leave my comfort zone and go practice the language or whatever. And, you know, when he realized that I don't speak any French, we came back home to Kyiv. And he made me study French. He, yeah, like, I then went for, like, some extra classes. And I've studied, I've started studying French, very intensively. And then since that year, I was done going to Francophone countries to study French. And at first, I really hated that, you know, like, I didn't like French, I didn't like the fact that I was forced to do that. Because when you're forced to do that, you don't like it, you know, you're, you're being stubborn, and you're trying to do anything, but learn whatever. Or like, for me, it was like learn French. But with some time, I started liking it, you know, I was traveling to Belgain or Switzerland, especially like the French part of Switzerland, France, many places in France. And I liked it, you know, I was discovering their culture, their language, and just being around French people in French society and culture. And I was like, Okay, that's all that bad. So by the end of the high school, I had pretty decent level. So when there was a question, Where would I apply? We were like, Okay, let's go for France. Because France has some public schools, public universities that are for free. And at first, my initial plan was to apply to French public universities, which I did. So I applied to three public universities. That was the max. I got accepted, everything was fine. And then like, in the very end, someone just like, proposed me France business schools. And there was this idea that it's way easier to get to the job market, from the business school than from like a public school. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that was the reason why I actually went for the business school. And especially when I discovered that the studies are in English. Yeah. I was like, Okay, well, I'm doing that. So I applied to Skema, and I had like an interview and some other stuff. And I got accepted. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to Skema.

Abdullah Najjar 20:08
So technically, it wasn't your first time in France, and it wasn't planned that, uh, you would go to Skema? Oh,

Viktoriia Tcachenco 20:17
Yeah, it wasn't my first time in France. No, that was like, my, I don't remember, remember? But like, that wasn't for sure. My first time in France? No, no. That was actually also facilitated me my move to France, because I knew what to expect. I knew the region I knew, you know, kinda like, what to expect in terms of people, culture, food, all that stuff. So I was prepared for that. Right. Yeah. And Skema, yeah, it wasn't my first plan. It wasn't my initial plan.

Abdullah Najjar 20:47
Wow. And how did you feel about going to Skema? What were your for? What was your initial experience like? I don't know how long you've spent in two years, two years? Wow. Well, how were How would you describe those two years in the Skema program?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 21:08
Okay, so the first year, well, let's say first semester was pretty challenging, because still, it's new country, new people, new everything, you have to start your life from, not the very beginning. But from a certain beginning. It was a bit tough, because I still also had to learn, you know, like the educational system, how the classes work. You know, I had to settle my routine, I had to realize like my schedule and how it worked and everything. So that was a bit tough, but then it went well. But again, in the middle of the second semester, the full scale war happened in Ukraine, right, which also, you know, not facilitated my journey there for sure. That was another thing that I was worried about. And it really had an impact on my journey. And on my future studies, and on my future, everything so.

Abdullah Najjar 22:05
And did you find some support system? At that time?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 22:11
In France?

Abdullah Najjar 22:12
Yeah

Viktoriia Tcachenco 22:12
no, no, no, that actually, you know, people when I tell them that I had no support in France at all people are like, but how, how is it possible? But yeah, that's the truth. I really remembered, well, when the war started, I was like, in the bus. I got a phone call from my friend. And she was crying. And she was like, Oh, my God, I saw like a bomb being like, not far from my house. You know, like, I saw it, I heard it. I woke up from this. You know, like, I couldn't really realize what was going on. Because when my parents called me and said that the war started, they were so cold, like, my dad, he couldn't hear any stressful pieces in his voice. He was like, so calm and chill. And you know, like, nothing happened, you know. But then when my friends were calling me, and when they were sending me the texts, messages, and like, the videos, I was like, Oh, my God with this, like the real full scale war, like, what's happening? How can that be? And I mean, there was the period before the full scale war started. It was like a very intense period where like embassies were leaving the country where all the international delegates were like, Come on, guys, you've got to leave the country and everything. So there was a pretty intense period before that. So there was a tension already. So we never knew if it's gonna happen or not. But it happened. And no one believed it me, neither. I was like, how is that even possible? But it happened?

Abdullah Najjar 23:44
Wow

Viktoriia Tcachenco 23:44
So, and yeah, coming back to the support. So there were a few Ukrainian students and Skema, and we decided to organize like a social thing in the university. And I was like, Okay, guys, come on, we gotta like, do this. And this. So the idea was to collect the humanitarian help, humanitarian aid for the Ukrainian families and children. And then to send it to Ukraine. And also, we were planning to make some posters to put around the campus. And it was so complicated to do that. Because the administration back there, they were like, Okay, you can't do it here. You cannot cover the sign the logo of the school, this place, no, you cannot do it. So we're like, okay, but where can we actually establish the thing? You know, and I was like, but guys, are you on our side? Why are you blocking this, you know, but finally, we did that. But like, you know, there was like, it's been a few days after the war started, and after, like, we actually requested that when it actually happened, and then again, when it happened And when we established like places, the collection places for the humanitarian aid, we kind of provided the instruction of what you can bring, what should you bring in and like, where to put it and everything, realized that no one was actually caring, you know, no one cared. No one was bringing in anything. I even saw that like some students were actually taken something from those boxes.

Oh, my goodness, yeah, that is so low.

And I was like, so frustrated and at that time I was like, so off. Because you can imagine like, there's the war, the full scale war that happened in the country in my country, I'm seeing people being completely careless. They were hanging out, they were having the parties, because we have to remember that French culture means that you get a party, like, every week, two, three times per week. You know, people kept partying, and I was like, I was so mad at everyone. I just, you know,

Abdullah Najjar 25:59
they didn't understand.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 26:02
Yeah, so I didn't really receive any support. Yeah, some professors when, you know, they found out why was like, so depressed and why I was like, skipping classes, not turning the papers and everything. They were like, what's going on? And I was like, you know, I'm Ukrainian. And there is a full time war and everything. And they were like, okay, yeah, we kind of understand we support you know, there's anything like, I could talk to them. But the students especially they didn't care.

Abdullah Najjar 26:29
And it was hard to even go back right to actually maybe see because you said your from to capital. Yeah. And I think it could maybe be hard to go back. I don't know how how that works. Um,

Viktoriia Tcachenco 26:44
okay. Yeah, I will explain you. So, actually, I was at, like, in Kyiv, during the war. So I went back to Kyiv. Last winter, yeah, for Christmas. So it's a bit complicated to travel there, because the sky is closed. So you cannot take the plane, obviously. So what you can and should do is basically you either take a train to get to Kyiv, or like, you take the bus or the car. So I had to take firstly, I had to take the flight from Nice, which is in the south of France, to Warsaw the capital of Poland. And then I took a bus. Wow. So the whole trip was like, almost 24 hours.

Abdullah Najjar 27:30
Oh, my goodness.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 27:31
Yeah, that was,

Abdullah Najjar 27:32
that's what was your initial reaction when you first went back?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 27:36
Oh, my God, I can't even express it. I because, you know, that's a very controversial thing. Because I always wanted to study abroad, I always wanted to be abroad and to live abroad. But then, especially when the full scale war happened, and I realized that my home city, the place where I was born, I was raised, I lived my whole life, had my friends, my life, everything is being under the attack every single day. I felt so bad. And like, I was missing my home city a lot. I was literally I was, you know, like looking at the pictures and videos that were taken back then, when I was still in Ukraine, I was still set in school, and I was crying. I was crying a lot that period. Like I can really describe it as just just crying. You know?

Abdullah Najjar 27:40
I'm sorry that must be.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 28:08
So what I actually came back. Last year, during the wintertime, I was so happy. You know, we didn't have the light. We had like constant blackouts. The streets were dark, there was no electricity. There was sometimes there was no like hot water or like electricity for a few days. And it was like, it was really hard, you know, to for people to live there. But I had so much you know, love being there. And I I just enjoyed it so much because I saw my friends. I saw my family part of my family I saw my cat my home, you know, my room. I was I was I was really happy and I didn't care that there was no light or there was no electricity. Or you know,

Abdullah Najjar 29:14
yeah, so so so it almost it's like all of the basic necessities have been have become, you know, no longer basic. It's like oh yeah, you have to You're you're no longer entitled these human basic human needs.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 29:32
Exactly. You know, people do not realize that their basic needs their basic things are not basic for someone. You know. I was staying in there for like 10 days, only 10 days, but people live there. You know. They have to deal with the constant blackouts the constant you know, the aids the alarms, the Missoula attacks and bombings and everything and people have to live with that. Yeah. And you know, people do not really realize that having like a warm water warm shower in the morning is like, it's not a basic thing is actually kind of luxury thing for for some people.

Abdullah Najjar 30:19
Right, right. They take, they take these things for granted. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow. And what are what were your parents reaction like when you first saw them?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 30:30
Well, the thing is that at that time already, my mom was in Prague. So my mom and my younger siblings, they were in Prague in Czech Republic. But my dad and my older brother, they were in Kyiv. And you know, my dad, he's not really emotional. So he was like, Okay, you're here. Come on, we gotta do something.

Abdullah Najjar 30:55
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So how did your father and your brother cope with the situation? It's even, it's hard for me to say cope, because you don't cope with these things. You don't normalize them. Right? But how were they? I'm sure they've changed a lot after all of this. What did you how did you feel that they were dealing with this situation?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 31:23
I mean, honestly, what I'm talking about, especially like my family, they didn't really change. Like, okay, so my brother who's studying at university in Kyiv, he kept studying while his classes were online, of course, so he just kept studying my dad, he was still working, you know, he kept working. Obviously, where they were like, the alarms, they had to go to the bomb shelter, or like the, you know, the metro station, or the underground parking or whatever, there was, like, underground, they had to, like, go down, and, you know, stay there. But the rest didn't really change. I mean, obviously, they're like, the things, the routine stuff that have changed, they had to adapt to it. But, you know, it's not like, I know that a lot of people, especially Americans, they think that when there's a war happening in the country, it's like, everything is bombed. There's no life, everyone is just sitting in the bomb shelters, and being scared and doing nothing and just, you know, being terrified. No, the live goes on. And people are studying people are going to the restaurants and shops. And I mean, the live goes on, because it has to go on. Yeah. Because if it didn't go on, we would be that you know, emotionally. So it has to continue.

Abdullah Najjar 32:57
Yeah. What you said, you went back in the winter season, was that during Christmas time?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 33:04
Yeah, that was during Christmas time. So I spent Christmas was my dad and my older brother.

Abdullah Najjar 33:08
And what was a Christmas celebration at that time look like?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 33:12
Um, you know, usually as like, in every city, I guess. There's like a Christmas tree, there would be usually a big Christmas tree on the central, you know, in the central square in Ukraine. And like in 2020, in 2020, and 2021. So before the war, there was like a huge Christmas tree was a lot of lights. There was like a Christmas market around like the ice rink. You know, children were playing there was like this. Hustle and bustle around and like everything. But when I actually went to the central score, I saw the tree and I realized, you know, how it really changed because the Christmas tree was way smaller. There were mostly no lights, because, you know, come on, there's like blackout. So no one would actually use the lights. And you could see that the life really changed. And people changed. And their perception of everything changed. Yeah. But again, I was I was still feeling good. I was, I was enjoying my time there. Because that was my home. And I came back home. And I saw my friends that I haven't seen for like a few months. So I was happy to be there.

Abdullah Najjar 34:23
Wow. I'm so glad it happened. You know, you got a chance to see them and I'm glad they're still, you know, still alive. They survived.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 34:32
Oh my god. That sounds so.

Abdullah Najjar 34:36
Yeah, I mean, it's hard. I'm sure it's really hard to actually cope with this because no one would anticipate that, you know, they would wake up some day, and their country is in a state of disarray and state of war a state of chaos. So it's really, ya know, it's it's it's hard to cope with such things. I don't even know if one can actually cope with these things. It's you especially when when you know you're far away. I guess it puts a strain on one's ability to carry out day to day tasks. Right.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 35:13
But also people united, you know, it's a very important thing to mention that people all all, like all Ukrainians, they really united. I've never seen our society and like Ukrainian population to be that united. Yeah. As they became. Wow. And like, I'm so proud to be Ukrainian. I've never been so proud before, you know? Yeah. Because today Ukrainian to be Ukrainian means, you know, it means way more than just belong to some country or, you know, like some nationality. Right? It really means a lot. And people when they discover that I'm Ukrainian, like, you just saw the reaction of that lady, right. It's like, when you said that I'm from Ukraine. She was like, oh, you know, so people have this instant reaction, like, oh, you know, yeah. So I really admire the fact that today, Ukraine has been, it's like a synonym to the freedom, you know, to dignity and to being strong and independent. And, you know,

Abdullah Najjar 36:17
are there any Ukrainians you got to meet here in the US? Is there a community here?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 36:24
Well, I just recently, like a few weeks ago, I met a guy is from Ukraine, his studies at the Wake Tech. Um, but that's it. He is the only student like the same age as me. Yeah, from Ukraine. I've met some refugees, but those are the women, you know, was the children, because those are usually the people who are, you know, leaving the country and kind of searching for a new place to settle down. And those were just two families. Yeah. So that was the first guy the same age as me, student from Ukraine. I was like, so happy because you know, what, I actually saw him in the library, however, realized that he was Ukrainian is that he had a laptop and he had some stickers on it. Yeah. And those stickers were like, you know, in the Ukrainian theme. So I was like, Okay, I'm not sure if he was Ukrainian. But I had to ask him, you know, his nationality, because I wouldn't use such a huge chance. So I approached him, and I asked him where he was from, and he was like, I'm Ukrainian. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm Ukrainian too. We have to, you know, like, keep in touch and everything. So yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 37:41
And what was his story? Why? Why is he here? What brought him here?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 37:47
So at first he was set. So he is from Odessa. Okay. It's a city in Ukraine, also one of one of the biggest city, it's actually by the sea. So when the war started, he firstly went to Germany. And he spent like a year there. But then he no longer really wanted to stay here to stay there. So he decided to come here.

Abdullah Najjar 38:13
Yeah. Yeah. And he's so settled down. His life is somewhat

Viktoriia Tcachenco 38:18
Oh yeah. Cuz he's, like, it's been more than a year since he moved to the US. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 38:26
Right. And you've been here since August. Yeah. Since August. Wow. What do you think was so far a memorable lesson you learned from being abroad? And being in the US? It's definitely way. It's not as close as close to Ukraine for instance, closer.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 38:53
Yeah, for sure.

Abdullah Najjar 38:54
Stepping a little bit farther. Yeah.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 38:58
The lesson that I learned when I came here to the US, you know, I had, I mean, we all have some sort of you imagination of the country when we are going there. And, you know, when people are talking about the US, especially in the eastern Europe, the US is meant to be like a dream. You know, there is this concept of American dream, right. So that's this concept is very much pursued in the Eastern Europe. So when I was coming here, I was kinda, you know, I was not like expecting this American dream to be real.

Abdullah Najjar 39:44
Cause it's a dream right.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 39:46
Yeah, but, you know, like, I had some certain, you know, a certain image of the United States. But then not it's actually a bit different, you know, because the United States has all experiencing a tough period. People are, you know, they don't really know what's going on. And people are confused here. And a lot of people are, you know, declining to work. And there's kind of cows here as well, because I've been talking to some people, Americans, and I've been asking them about their, for example, political preferences, and they are so unsure. You know, this American Dream has never been under the question that much as it is today. So

Abdullah Najjar 40:30
I understand I understand how they a lot of them are are frustrated with how they're how the government seems to be. They believe that it's not. It's not doing what it's supposed to do, which is prioritize its people. These are some of the conversations I've been having. A lot of people are disappointed that they even they no longer affiliate themselves with any party, any political party, there are those people that you know, just just no longer trust the system. That's rather disappointing, you know. But, yeah, I just think that traveling and being abroad, leaves, a great deal of growth. But it also is hard in a sense that you don't, you don't get to see your loved ones or your family as much as you should. And I'm sure, especially your case, when your family is in a state that is when you know, they're all over the place. Yeah, some people in Ukraine, some people in the Czech Republic that that it makes it even harder. So I can't imagine how that must be feel how you must be feeling like it's how it must feel like because, you know, I? Yeah, I mean, I don't get a chance to talk to a lot of people. You're the first Ukrainian that I've ever talked to?

Viktoriia Tcachenco 42:01
Really? Wow.

Abdullah Najjar 42:02
Yeah, it's really, it's really fascinating to hear your story, I just wish that a lot of people would be able to hear these stories as well, you know.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 42:11
But again, you know, like, a lot of people when when they listen to my story, or they get a chance to talk to me, they're like, Oh, my God, we're like, impressed by your story, or, like, all this stuff. But yeah, they're just important to mention that I was lucky to be abroad, you know, I never actually experienced, like, the real real war, because I've been just in Ukraine, like for those 10 days during the Christmas period. But people that are the same age as me, my friends, you know, the youth, the Ukrainian youth, they're living with it every day. And they are the ones you know, who have fascinating stories and, or, you know, like, really incredible people. I mean, yeah, I do experience some difficulties, some challenges, and obviously, I get to deal was that, and I didn't really want to experience that in like, when I was 17. But, again, there are so many more truly inspiring people. They're even younger than me or older than me, or in Ukraine, and, you know, they've got the real stories to tell.

Abdullah Najjar 43:19
Yeah. I'm just, I'm glad you're, you know, you. I'm glad we had a chance to have this conversation. Glad to hear

Viktoriia Tcachenco 43:28
I appreciate it.

Abdullah Najjar 43:29
Yeah. I, I hope that a lot of people would, would understand more of what it's like to, you know, experience such unfortunate circumstances and have more conversations.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 43:40
You know, I have a kind of rule in my life, that I think it's that's the rule that I've been living with, throughout my whole life. Yeah. So everything can be estimated through the comparison. You know, you cannot really understand the real value of something. If it hasn't been compared to something else. Yeah. Yeah. So when people have the chance to discover you know, another culture as Ukrainian culture and what people are going through, maybe I really hope that they can actually appreciate their everyday routine a bit more, and, you know, become more thankful to what they have to what the experience to just a lie they have. Because somewhere there somewhere else, somewhere like in Ukraine, people experiencing way harder life. Yeah. And, you know, when you got a chance to talk to someone who can really explain you or just elaborate on that, you know, you just started to think that, you know, maybe my life is all bad, you know, I gotta like two hands, two arms, two legs, I can breathe, I can eat. Yeah. So, I mean, that is the happiness for some people, you know.

Abdullah Najjar 44:56
Right, right these these these things that we take for granted.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 44:58
Yeah, exactly.

Abdullah Najjar 45:00
Well, it all starts with, I guess when these conversations and more exposure, and I hope that these could lead to more understanding or facilitate understanding of the other side. Thank you, Viktoriia for joining me.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 45:15
I appreciate so much. Thank you for having me. I was like, I really appreciated the chance, you know, to talk about my story and just, you know, to talk with you So,

Abdullah Najjar 45:23
Absolutely. I think it's worthwhile to have these conversations. Thank you.

Viktoriia Tcachenco 45:27
Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai