Connecting the Pack

Abdullah Najjar 0:00
All right, welcome to WKNC. In today's episode of Connecting the Pack, I am joined by Minna El Sayyad. Minna is a student at NC State University. She is from Egypt. And she spent some time abroad outside of the US in the UK. And today we're going to explore her journey in the UK and her journey in the US and the lessons that she learned throughout her travels. So, Minna, it's a pleasure to have you with me today.

Menna El Sayyad 0:36
Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Abdullah Najjar 0:37
All right, yeah, that's awesome. So, um, one of the things that I'd love to talk to you about today is is the idea of moving out of Egypt at a very early age. I understand that you were 15 when you moved out?

Menna El Sayyad 0:52
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 0:53
Right? So many questions I have about this. But first, why, you know, why did you move out at 15? And what was that like for you to just, you know, leave your, your, your home country and spent some time in a foreign country? In the West?

Menna El Sayyad 1:14
Yeah. It's, um, it's, I think it's a critical question to why I'm here today, I believe. So I felt like at the age of 15, I was my high school year. And I just felt that there is more out there that I can discover more than my school curriculum more than what I can reach. I came from a very small town in Egypt. So I didn't even live in the capital where usually most resources are to do anything and discover anything. And since a young age, I really have developed love for cultures and languages, and I just wanted to explore that more. And so from there, I started looking for better opportunities, like educational opportunities I applied for, and I started like applying for scholarships. One of them was like one year exchange here in the US, but like, do some logistics, it didn't work. And then I came across the chance to apply for the UWC, which stands for United World Colleges. And I would say this is from there. The reason why it changed my life because it was this amazing idea to live in a boarding school in a country that could be out of 17 countries all across Europe, Asia, and Africa, and the US and Canada in Costa Rica, like you could be like I didn't know where I would end up. And just the whole idea was very thrilling. And also to study curriculum, like the International Baccalaureate is something that is not limiting. And something like my, my curriculum back in my country that I could choose, I could choose which topics in which subjects I want to focus on. And I just like that power of learning, because I came from a culture where you learn to get a certificate or you don't really learn but you go through school to get certificate so I wanted to learn something and I wanted to learn it not for grading not for anything, just because I was always interested in I didn't want to do it like a side thing. So I guess I started that from an earlier age by learning Korean by myself.

Abdullah Najjar 3:24
Oh my goodness wow.

Menna El Sayyad 3:27
I felt mysteries very, like funny because I started watching Korean dramas like on the TV when they're dubbed. And then I was like, I want to I want to know more. I want to hear the episode faster. You know, I don't want to wait for it. So let me look it up. And then I look it up. And I hear with subtitles. I'm like, Oh, this language sounds beautiful. I want to I want to know more. And then I watched more and more. And then I repeat after them. And they can come some point. I'm like 11 or 12. And I'm like, oh, I can I actually understand what they're saying without. Let me try to learn the language like the writing. So it just kept going by a bunch of coincidence until I was 14. I went to my family. I was like, I need to learn more. I want to go to Cairo. So at the age of 14, I would skip school for two days and traveled to Cairo the same day and come back to go to the grand embassy to learn Korean for like a whole year because I did like a placement test and I came in level four out of level six. So and then from there, I went to the UK.

Abdullah Najjar 4:26
And what is level four here? Is that like something significant or?

Menna El Sayyad 4:29
Yeah, so in the Korean embassy and the skills of learning Korean you can take like like the IELTS or the TOEFL. For English there's one that's called topic. Yeah. So level four kind of is advanced intermediate. I finished. I finished there like level five and have level six. So that's kind of getting at the first spectrum of fluency. If you take topic testiness, like a credential like to do so um, so yeah, I think I just, it was very abnormal for my peers at school to find like someone skipping school for two days to go travel by themselves and

Abdullah Najjar 5:09
Oh, I bet

Menna El Sayyad 5:10
yeah, no, it was tiring, it really was. But I was just happy that I'm doing something I'm really passionate about. And I would remind this myself every day, I'm dozing off and like in bus going back to my city at 11pm after a long day, but it was rewarding

Abdullah Najjar 5:28
This is okay, so a lot of things here. I would love to explore with you. So there's there's the Korean language learning the Korean. And the idea of having a plethora of options when you were applying for an exchange year was an exchange year. Is that what it was?

Menna El Sayyad 5:45
Yeah

Abdullah Najjar 5:45
Yeah, and you chose the UK? So if you okay, so you have you've learned Korean, or advanced level Korean when you were 14? Let me I'd be interested to know why you didn't choose to go to South Korea, when you were 15. Right. Wouldn't that make sense?

Menna El Sayyad 6:06
Yeah, I mean, I guess you know, coming from where I come from the practicality of the scholarships, and the funding is what leads you everywhere. I guess. I looked up a lot of like opportunities in Korea, it all seemed to be like an undergrad opportunities or mostly grad opportunities. And I was just like, in my first year of high school, I had no other option and and also the the exchange year was the one to the US which the one I didn't end up going to. But the two years program that I've done, which is the International Baccalaureate in UWC, this is what I ended up going to and the funny story here that you don't know which country you're going, and they choose for you and then the you know, they be like, hello, you got accepted and you're going to this country, prepare yourself. But the funny thing is to apply for this scholarship is from 16 to 18 years old, I applied at 15.

Abdullah Najjar 7:05
Wow, how did that work?

Menna El Sayyad 7:06
So after they called me and like you got accepted and everything, and it's like the selection process is very extensive. You first send the written application, and then you do activities day where you meet other candidates and, and you play games to like, kind of talk about your personality a little bit. And then after you select it from this one, actually, sorry, before this one, you do like an IQ test before the activities day then activities day and then an interview. That's like six people interviewing you at the same time. So after going through all that, and they told me accepted I'm like, oh, but did you realize I'm 15 years old? They'll be like, oh, okay, we need to check about that. They just leave me for two weeks. And like they never get back. And they when they asked her again. Do you look? Yeah, yeah, we checked your fine you can go. I'm like no one told me.

Abdullah Najjar 7:54
This is this is just crazy. So you know, you're 15 at the time. I mean, how did they? Wasn't there supposed to be like, I guess when you're under 18? You have to have like some legal guardian, right?

Menna El Sayyad 8:09
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 8:09
Yeah. Like, wasn't there? Like you can't even sign documents, I think when you're 15. How did they how do they work around these these different, you know, variables here,

Menna El Sayyad 8:20
it means that, like in terms of applying

Abdullah Najjar 8:22
Like yeah and in terms of like going to the like, who's who's supervising these underaged individuals

Menna El Sayyad 8:29
to travel there. So like in terms of applying you just your parents have to sign one form that they agree for you to apply? And then not like in the future process, you don't need to any kind need to do any kind of signature. But in terms of traveling? Yeah, like, every visa, every visa document I needed, they needed to sign some stuff. And apparently they need to come to my visa appointment, which they didn't because I've been traveling by myself, so why would they come I had to convince the, like the immigration officer, like, you know, it's fine I can do it.

Abdullah Najjar 9:04
Okay, wow

Menna El Sayyad 9:05
But like yeah, but like in the school itself. It was like a boarding school and in the house, you kind of had the house parent that supervised everyone. And then you also had a tutor I like to supervise academically and in my school, which is not the case in all schools, but we have something called check in, which is like at 10pm you have to come home and you'd get checked in and the house gets locked. So it's it was a very, like a safe process. That's why some schools mind having like people below 16 My school didn't because it's already newest has the measures in place that would supervise an age basically.

Abdullah Najjar 9:43
Okay. Yeah, it's interesting. So, let's, let's explore together the early days of going to the UK and, you know, being exposed to an entirely different culture. What was it like for you to, you know, to be surrounded by I guess, an international community and British people, was it easy to make friends? Was it hard? What was that like?

Menna El Sayyad 10:09
I must tell you, I was so excited. Like, I remember, like, I felt bad because like, leaving home and saying goodbye to my family, I felt like I was more excited than I should look like when I'm saying goodbye to my family. But I've only traveled abroad once. And it was to Saudi Arabia, just because my dad worked there. So it was like my first time to go to the west to like, and for me and the UK. I mean, I was never I always been a kind of person who's fascinated by more Eastern cultures. Like, I was really interested in India and Korea, like in all these cultures, but I was like, okay, the UK looks very impressive. I want to know, what is this all about. And just the fact that I'm going to go to a school like that. I came from an education back home that I went to public, all girls schools in Arabic, so it's an in a small town, so it's as local and as mainstream kind of education. Like it wasn't like private schools or English schools. So it was very kind of exciting thing for me. So I remember like, almost missing my connecting flights. People calling my name, but I was like, I all I'm thinking that excitement, like I'm gonna make it and then I arrived there, I find the school staff waiting for me. And they asked me which house and I'm trying to speak to every person try to get to know where they're from, like, trying to see oh, which trying see people from countries have been interested in and talk with them like, so it was full of excitement. And once I arrived to school, I think that was my first culture shock. That, like it was a mixed housing, like you'd like boys and girls lived in the same house. And it's not something that I'm really used to seeing back home. And it's not something that I had a problem with, but more like I was observing a lot what's going on like, and you know, they, our second years were people who have been living there together for like, second year now. So they're very used to each other. They're like, their interactions and everything. So I was like, oh, wow, they do this? Oh, wow. This is interesting. Like it was it took a lot of observations. And I was like, very surprised. But I don't think it got me to feel any negativity, because I was very comfortable with myself as very comfortable for what I did and what I stood for and how I conducted myself. So I was like, Oh, they're doing this. I'm happy for them. You know, I'm also happy for myself. So So yeah, I was very excited. That's what I would describe the whole time period.

Abdullah Najjar 12:46
This is okay. Now, this is fascinating. I mean, even since the start of our conversation, we didn't even talk about how you managed to, to learn English because we focus on Korean. And you even said, like, you were in an all Arabic school, right?

Menna El Sayyad 13:02
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 13:03
So what I mean, what was that? Like? How do you even learn how to speak English?

Menna El Sayyad 13:07
I mean, I don't know. I, I just I guess I picked up language easily when I was young, I would watch a lot of shows a lot of American movies. I was obsessed with those like, I had like I feel like I had early teenagehood in my childhood but I was obsessed with all like those makeup tutorial videos and like room tours and all of that that's how I picked up an American accent very earlier on okay. But that's like the part of my, my past I'm not proud of. But yeah, that's how I learned English basically like English at school was not something that is taught very strongly. We were taught English speaking Arabic like using Arabic, so it's not something that was very strong, but I just I watched a lot of shows in that's how I picked up English.

Abdullah Najjar 13:59
Okay. Wow, that's, that's honestly quite remarkable. Like you were juggling between three different languages. You know, I mean, your English is really it's it's amazing and I was like this, I didn't even expect it you know how to speak Korean. So that's a interesting fact. So So tell me about the you know, the memorable or, you know, a few of the memorable experiences about your time in the UK? I'm sure there have been many right

Menna El Sayyad 14:25
Yeah

Abdullah Najjar 14:25
Because the excitement was through the roof. Every single moment I guess was something that was memorable for you but maybe we can narrow it down to a few right?

Menna El Sayyad 14:36
Yeah, I mean, to say the least it was really a roller coaster because it's it's basically taking someone out of everything they're familiar with you know when you're when you're back at your home with your friends in school like in back home you kind of you've been there for a while, you know, the norm, you know everything but imagine you're thrown in a in an international school where every person has their on way of communication there own kind of background of what friendship is and and and put that aside the IB the International Baccalaureate like it was a jump from learning Egyptian curriculum in Arabic to learning the International Baccalaureate like I was taking subjects like anthropology higher level world religions, design technology, and, and I was taking Arabic self taught, which was very interesting because we're studying Arabic literature which something I haven't studied like back home, and of course English. And, and I remember I think one of the critical time was trying to read those readings for Anthropology and world religions and I'm like, I'm struggling, I maybe know how to converse with people, but I don't know how to read an academic paper, or get aside, write one, you know, and, and, and I remember struggling with that a lot. And, but I felt like there is no way to get out of it. And like SAP just sitting down, like putting every word into a translator and memorizing it and going from like, the basics.

Abdullah Najjar 14:44
Wow.

Menna El Sayyad 14:45
So to read one page I'll take two hours, at least to kind of comprehend and it was a constant process of feedback was, like teachers and all of that, but that one, I felt really challenged and I felt like all my education before had failed me miserably. But I survived it, I would say, you know, and then next, I feel like the part that really got me through as well is the people that I met. I feel like I have been the happiest socially and with my friend group in these two years, because you felt that it was a quite diverse school, not just in terms of like, where people come from not just in terms of phrases also in terms of thinking in terms of ideas in terms of different things. So you found people who like, like my best friend, she was from Bangladesh, and she had lived 10 years of her life in Egypt and she speaks Korean so like

Abdullah Najjar 17:14
This is funny! This is fascinating

Menna El Sayyad 17:17
I know and we met by chance like I was I was friends with her roommate and then one day we met she was like introducing me on this is also my other roommate if you want to meet her so

Abdullah Najjar 17:28
Wow.

Menna El Sayyad 17:29
So yes.

Abdullah Najjar 17:30
Wow, the diversity must have been off the charts.

Menna El Sayyad 17:33
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 17:33
That's cool. You said it was a boarding school so that means I guess you know, it was easy to have you know communications with with people coming from different parts of the world right?

Menna El Sayyad 17:45
yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 17:45
Wow. So So toward toward the end of your of your time in the UK? Did you do certain things that you would think were like, you know, you're like oh, I mean, now I'm leaving I have to do this before I leave we're looking to prioritize certain during certain things that you think are maybe hilarious maybe memorable maybe I don't know

Menna El Sayyad 18:11
Yeah, I mean I I'm not a quite a risk taker. I have found but maybe these years I was more of a risk taker. So one of the things that I was not allowed to do in the school is to do something was called nightride. So remember how I explained there is a check in process where you get locked in your house at 10:15?

Abdullah Najjar 18:37
Yeah, it's like curfew.

Menna El Sayyad 18:38
Yeah. And it was very strict that like even our windows had restrictors so you cannot open them for like more than five centimeters from there just to get some air in. So something that people would do like a lot in the years and I felt like I have to do it just for the fun of it is people cut these window restrictors like not me personally, but like, there is one window that we all know that this restrictor cut, and then after the curfew a certain time you jump out, and you try to sneak into someone else's house, but the school is very big. It's like a It's on a cliff. And you have the Bristol Channel next to you and it's like there's fields with sheep farms around you and it's very like vast the whole Yeah, and the interesting thing is that there are night borders, which are people who are their jobs to walk around the school and try to catch those students who are night riding.

Abdullah Najjar 19:32
Oh boy.

Menna El Sayyad 19:34
So the whole thing was about like trying to hide before like I've like crawled on the ground like way up and then you hide after a tree and then you hide on the grass when you see them coming and like it's it's and then I went to my second year's house and like jumped in from the window. It was like a whole like kind of a movie action type of thing. And I just went there and I said to my friends, but I just I did nothing, but I just want to do it for the fun of it.

Abdullah Najjar 20:02
It's like some sort of covert mission. Wow. Okay, this is this is funny. Wow. I mean I would I that is risk taking at its finest Oh my so okay, so you get back. So you finish your year and you go back to Egypt? What was it like to sorry? You were gonna say something

Menna El Sayyad 20:28
it was two years,

Abdullah Najjar 20:28
two years? Yeah. Oh, so you have, I would say that you might have developed a very strong connection I guess to living there and to the to the friends and all acquaintances. Wow, this is this is incredible. So two years and then you go back to Egypt for a year or what happens next.

Menna El Sayyad 20:46
So I just go back to Egypt in summer and then I come here in the US for undergrad.

Abdullah Najjar 20:52
Wow. So. So you went for just a summer after spending two years abroad? And then you go to the US that was it all planned out? Or how did that work?

Menna El Sayyad 21:03
Oh, so my school has this donor. His name is Shelby Davis, basically, who has this program, whoever graduated from UWC school, in the 17 countries, he would donate $20,000 for their undergrad tuition

Abdullah Najjar 21:21
was very generous

Menna El Sayyad 21:22
Yeah, and partner universities and partner universities like their very is a big list. And also many of the universities, especially my university, they went they doubled that. And they also cover housing as well. So it's kind of a full scholarship kind of thing.

Abdullah Najjar 21:38
This is incredible.

Menna El Sayyad 21:41
So so everyone in UWC knows that, like they mainly applying for the US because we all know that we're guaranteed $20,000 just the moment we apply for any university to get in.

Abdullah Najjar 21:51
Okay, so you end up what universities did you say you apply to or were you restricted?

Menna El Sayyad 21:59
No. I mean, you're restricted to 10 just because to be able to do it, because of the how universities applications are. But yeah, I applied for I think my top choice was Minerva,

Minerva.

Yeah. Because

Abdullah Najjar 22:13
Was that the one that takes you abroad to different country? Okay.

Menna El Sayyad 22:16
Yeah. I feel like I was not like, ready with leaving, like the whole international life, I wanted to kind of jump across. While in undergrad, I went to Turkey and I went to China and I went to Czech Republic. And I just liked the whole life of traveling. But I'm also kind of glad I didn't get into Minerva, because I met people in Korea who were in Minerva. And just the idea that every semester for four years, you're in different place seemed like I think at that age seemed a bit disorienting, I wanted to have a place and a community and just, you know, be rooted down somewhere to kind of get the best.

Abdullah Najjar 22:56
Yeah.

Menna El Sayyad 22:57
But yeah, I applied for maybe nine universities Minerva being my top choice. And then I get accepted in in University of Oklahoma, which where I eventually went. And I was wait listed in Rochester, which a place I really wanted to go to. But turns out if I had gotten I would have needed to pay sum of money, which I would have not been able to pay. So Oklahoma really had was the best choice. For two reasons. First being the financial aid, they have an amazing financial package, they go above and beyond not just in tuition and housing, but also you give it like 10,000 like you give us $1,000 every semester for like to buy school books and stationaries and a bag every year and all of that, like, then you have a whole office that's dedicated to you that they do the admission. So they only look at UWC applications, and then they're there throughout the four years to help you with anything you need.

Abdullah Najjar 23:48
Wow.

Menna El Sayyad 23:49
Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 23:50
And this is, I guess that's the best choice. You can every make.

Menna El Sayyad 23:53
And then the second reason is, it had the biggest UWC community so you have like now an international community but also pulled from all these 17 colleges around the world. So not just from like all went to the UK, but went to India went to Italy, like went to East Africa, like Tanzania, like all people. And so it was it was amazing to kind of live with this international community again for four years.

Abdullah Najjar 24:17
This is no this is fascinating. And it's funny how, you know, after spending two years in the UK, you're still still jumping abroad, you know, like either I don't think you've had like, I guess a rest period that was extensive. And I find that you know, admirable, really. So you move to the US and how old were you at the time was it? I would imagine 18 Right? First college year,

Menna El Sayyad 24:46
first semester was 17.

Abdullah Najjar 24:48
Okay. Wow. So what was it like to transition to the US I mean, that's that

Menna El Sayyad 24:54
That was a difficult transition. I don't know if people in the US realize this, but the US always for me, it was very different than any place I've been into the like in the whole world, the culture in the US was very distinct. And the vastness of the US the, and also I went to Oklahoma of all places, which is like, makes us South and Midwest and like normal was not really the busiest city, I would call it as well. I think the biggest culture shock that I could not get over until today that I need to get on the highway to go to get groceries. I still cannot get over that. But no, it was it was a rough semester at the beginning, though I like I knew people going there, like the person who went to my UWC. Two years before, like graduated once I entered was in Oklahoma, so and he is the Egyptian so I knew him. I had also another like, person that I was accepted with me and UWC he came with me as well to Oklahoma. And beside like, there was a big community, but it was kind of difficult to get over the first culture shock here in the US thing in the first semester.

Abdullah Najjar 26:06
Yeah, no, I would imagine it would be because even like college in general, I mean, college is entirely different environment. You know, very, it's a huge transition from, you know, high school. Even though you had an international experience, you know, you it was still kind of tricky, but I'm glad you you were able to conquer all these challenges and spend how many years four years in Oklahoma?

Menna El Sayyad 26:28
Four years? I mean, I did semester abroad in Korea, but yeah, overall, four years.

Abdullah Najjar 26:32
Wow. And maybe here we can talk about some of the you know, I guess the key takeaways from your experience in Oklahoma right or maybe memorable experiences, I wouldn't imagine there would have been like an undercover operation. Right. Okay.

Menna El Sayyad 26:52
Don't know, I feel like it was it was how to conduct a community but more than in a bigger scale it not just like a fun hangouts, but also a support community. And we had I've been I've been the president of the Arab Association I have been the event chair of the Arab association have been the event chair for the international student advisory, which is a place where all international students and associations kind of like umbrella under so it was like a big it was a big organization. And also, I worked with international like Services Office, like immigration in the university for two of my years. So it was more of a professional setting how to create ties and cooperation and, and spaces for international students. And, like, it made me really passionate about international students voice like the theme of your podcast, but also how how such places really aid into their success and act like a support spaces and especially with events happening in the world, you know, that they only have a you'll always have this community to lay like back on and, and they support, I think that was the main thing. And this is something I'll always be thankful for. Like everyone I worked with in Oklahoma to kind of installing me this whole idea of wanting to belong to a community that you know, will be there, despite their or maybe because of their diversity. You know, you might you might not know about this cause or reason before, but now you have heard someone in your community who's doing this, and you want to do an event to talk to people about it, you want to do a fundraiser, you want to showcase your culture. And through that you want to speak about what you and you know, we had all kinds of interactions and events and that and I think that what made Oklahoma really a comfort space, and I still go there, and I'm going there soon.

Abdullah Najjar 28:54
Yeah. Okay. Wow. So you are still very much connected to Oklahoma. Wow. That's, that's incredible. I like to you know, you built that sort of international community tried to amplify their voices. I think it's, it is essential, and we should definitely celebrate the diversity that we have. So now that you've transitioned to a master's program, how is that? Was that a big move? Is that a big transition? Or what would how would you describe it?

Menna El Sayyad 29:24
It was it was a big move. Well, first after I graduated, I applied. I applied for actually PhD programs in anthropology because that's what yeah, what I've mainly interested in but I feel like just to I didn't have the essential foundation to start a PhD program, especially coming from an international studies background. So it was kind of difficult to get into any of these programs. And then I applied for Masters in in Oklahoma and also at NC State. But what happened was that I got a job. And I decided to work for a year to just discover what is working life is all about. And also the job was to help it was an international education, and help international students coming on exchange programs and different kinds of programs into the US. And there was a remote job, so I could have been anywhere. So I felt like it's ideal its everything I care about, it's also trying a new kind of lifestyle, it's a good pay. And also being remote that kind of gives me a lot of flexibility. And then when I deferred both of my programs like to, for after this year, and it was, it was an amazing experience, I would say, though, I moved to North Carolina, then during the school year, and it was, it was kind of difficult to start a remote job by moving to a new place. But the reason why I really moved to North Carolina and also a big reason of why I chose NC State, because I felt that as much as I am really happy with my experience in Oklahoma, I want to be in a bigger space. And I wanted to be in a bigger and more dynamic city than I was at Oklahoma. And I felt that was very limited to discover new opportunities and meet new people and being close to major cities like DC or New York. And in Oklahoma, I felt I'm kind of far from that. And I wanted to experience that I wanted to, to be able to go to New York, attend an event for a weekend or do the same thing in DC or even rally in Durham and Chapel Hill. They're quite dynamic city that have like really amazing universities that really allows a lot of opportunities. And that's why I was I was ready to move to a new place. And transition to masters.

Abdullah Najjar 31:51
Yeah. Well, I'm um, I'm really glad you made that decision. I think it's the right move. And no, I really I find your story quite remarkable Menna. And I think it's, I think 30 minutes is not enough to have a conversation with you. But since we're, you know, wrapping things up, would you like to add anything else? Before we close off?

Menna El Sayyad 32:15
The hardest question, out of them all, I don't know, I think I'll, I'm really happy to be here. And I'm really thankful that your podcast is doing something that I deeply care about, which is amplifying like international students voices, because it's important to not only be seen as international students important to be seen as a human being with a story with a background with hopes and feelings and families and ambitions. And I think that's what's amazing in being here. You know, and sharing these stories together.

Abdullah Najjar 32:49
I find that thank you, thank you for for saying that. I totally agree. And that's exactly why, you know, I, you know, I decided to run this entire podcast because I really, really want to hear these unique stories just to just to make people understand that diversity goes, you know, goes a long way. So, thank you so much for joining me, Menna. I'm glad we had this conversation.

Menna El Sayyad 33:15
Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai