Connecting the Pack

Abdullah Najjar 0:01
You're listening to WKNC. In today's episode of connecting the pack. I am joined by Samir Omari. Samir is a student at NC State University. He is from Afghanistan. And he recently started his graduate program in International Studies.

We're going to try to talk about his journey,

his life rather in Afghanistan and his transition to the United States.

So, Samir, welcome to the studio.

Samir Omary 0:40
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Abdullah Najjar 0:42
All right. Well, Samir, you have an interesting background.

I think you, you lived through the fall of Afghanistan in 2021. And after a few years,

you transition to the United States. Although I'm very interested in in this transition to the United States, I would say I'm equally interested in learning more about

living through the fall of Kabul, fall of Afghanistan, and the takeover, subsequent takeover to Taliban. So how about you, you shared with me a couple of

some of the things that you remember, of that day of the fall of Afghanistan?

Samir Omary 1:40
Well, to start to draw a general image, with the fall of Afghan regime with me a few years of me being in a third country, and now to the states, for me is like now living in a parallel universe simultaneously, things are happening, and I think I'm in different places, like it was this journey. It was not planned. So it was like a shock. For me that happened. Going back to the port that happened in Afghanistan, the day that the collapse happened, the Capitol collapsed, it was a normal Sunday, and I went to my office in around 10am. There were rumors that the Capitol is going to fall and these things, but it wasn't near noon, that we hear that the government most of them left the country, the administration and the insurgency enter the gates of the Capitol, and that was the chaotic hour I left the office and it was traffic everywhere the roads were closed, people who were afraid you could see the fear in the eyes of everybody even those who were selling vegetables on the side of the street.

It was an image that it's difficult to forget i

There were people like like if you suppose you I was kind of feeling that this is a background that is blurred, edited, and I couldn't see some of things very clearly but I could see the fear I could feel the fear and the air people were scared running around everyone different direction. Everyone was trying to find a shelter, find food, nutrition, their families go to their homes. And in with that situation with the traffic routes blocked and the rumors of that they are on the Taliban are on this side of the city. They are on this side of the road that was made the situation worse. And then it was me with my bag and laptop walking in a street. What a lot of fear and air walking towards my home, which is probably it was two hours of walk. Oh my goodness, you spent two hours trying to walk back to your home. Yeah, exactly in the way that at some point, I found a taxi. This was empty and the road was getting it was getting better. The cloud was this era, I was told I tried to rent a taxi and to get me to home and the guy responded me if you give me like $200 I still wouldn't be able to take you my family. They were scared. My daughter is calling me I need to get to them. And he apologized. And then he went on his way. So

Abdullah Najjar 4:14
Oh, my,

Samir Omary 4:15
there was no way to use any sort of public transportation or anything, everyone needed to work. Some of my family members, which they were very far from home, they had to find shelter and some of the relatives or friends which were close by them. We didn't know that was going to happen. confrontation was going to happen in this city. It was like totally chaotic situation. Anything could be expected. So for me, since I was halfway there, I had to reach to my house.

Abdullah Najjar 4:42
Wow. And when you reach your house, what was the first thing you did? What? What unfolded when you reached your house?

Samir Omary 4:49
Well, we were living in the second floor of a building where when I entered the the staircase, the stair area when I was climbing the stairs

I slowed down, I was like, I was climbing the stairs in a very slow pace. And I had this images were running through my mind. And I couldn't believe that, like I made it to my house. I was feeling like, I was reborn, I didn't knew that because I had this document in my bag that could definitely could threaten my life could get me to execution. So coming to making this journey of two hours and getting to my to the building, it was a big relief, like a reborn. And when I was climbing the stairs, and when I arrived home, I saw everyone standing in the hallway, and they were all shocked, pale. And my little brothers and others were were tasked to destroy the documents that we have anything that was once you're dealing with the Taliban, it doesn't matter what document you hold, if it's even a school paper certificate or something that could put your life into jeopardy. So they were destroying the documents that we had in our home. I was a student at the American University at that time. And that American University was a big target. And I saw they were started to put my documents into the water and destroy them. Direct tearing them was not an option to if if we could tear the documents and put them in a garbage it still it could it could could make suspicions. So they had to soak them in the water and destroy them. I couldn't believe this scene that they had, maybe they had more time than me to talk about or talk about this. They were in the home they so they came with this idea that so called the documents and destroyed them. So it didn't be recognized as as documents. Oh my goodness. So that was the depth of the situation how? How scary it was for my family.

Abdullah Najjar 6:46
Wow. But even though the documents have been destroyed these documents belonging to the American University of Afghanistan, you said

Samir Omary 6:55
belong to me belong to my classes. My it syllabus certificate. Yeah, this word is normal documents, school documents, certificates from the programs that I attended, in the embassies in Afghanistan social services that I've done certificates from the volunteer work that I've done for education, for orphanages, for woman empowerment. These were all the documents and some of the photos that I had, but international staff of the university or the places that I worked at the trips that I made these, all these documents were there that they were destroying, because we we could expect a house search at any moment once the capital collapsed.

Abdullah Najjar 7:32
Wow. So you were literally deleting integral. A record that is part you're literally deleting a part of your life, like something that sort of define your experience for a couple of years. I mean, that must have been hard to go through that right. I mean, what was obviously you guys were at a state of chaos. But once things once they were they were like destroyed these documents. What was what how did you feel about that?

Samir Omary 8:16
Well, the documents that you had to destroy were the document that represented the good part of my life. Yeah, the part that I was proud, the part that my parents were proud when we had the guest overs from somewhere in our place, my my father would proudly say that this is my son, he has this he has this scholarship is adding a discrete University and and these are his achievements. But I do at that day, those were exactly the documents that we had to destroy. That was that good portion of my life. My brother's life, my father that you've met, said he had all of those things that you were proud of the things that the 20 years of democracy provided for us, the sufferings that Afghans went through to achieve those those developments. Those were exactly the era of our life that you've missed that we had to destroy. And it was a space for us as painful as one could imagine, wow, some of these documents, we needed them. Because if you wanted to get out of this chaotic situation at some point or to an evacuation or to get out of the country to prove to someone that I've been involved in this, or even just for for ourselves to some in 10 years to look at them and see that I was part of this and for part of this, but what we had no choice to, to keep them I had to destroy my university ID card and with that, I was at the risk of not getting identified as a student of the university when I wanted to, at some point when I wanted to be identified and recognized or, but I couldn't keep them.

Abdullah Najjar 9:50
Wow. And so after, after all of this, after all this throwing all these documents and sort of making yourself more making it hard for people to trace your record. What? What happened next did you still did you stay in Afghanistan? How? If not When? When did you leave Afghanistan?

Samir Omary 10:17
Well, things unfolded very fast. The country collapse, it was not predicted. Like I told you, we were it was a normal day it stopped I went office. So things unfolded very fast. The evacuation started, there was a big chaotic situation around the airport, Kabul airport, the news spread it that there are evacuations and the planes are coming and they are taking over is there. Afghans they they were tired of the decades of war. And then nearly anyone wanted to take the opportunity to get out of the country. And people from around the country, they just rushed toward the airport. It was like a scene of the movies that the videos and the photos that we saw that 1000s of people were around the airport, the gates were locked. And the doors there were a few doors and there were like 1000s 1000s of people. They camped around the airport, they were living there they they would the family with the kids. It was very crowded, many people lost their life in the crowd. So even though I had the chance to get evacuated, I was enlisted. But I couldn't go to the airport because the roads were a risk being around the airport was a risk. And unfortunately, a really huge explosion happened that had many casualties, some US Marines and probably hundreds of Afghans who were trying to flee and save their life. So leaving the country at that point was not an option for me. I couldn't find it in myself to go and spend weeks on on that situation around the airport to get into the evacuation. So the only option that I heard was me and my family to stay in hiding.

Abdullah Najjar 12:09
Wow. And you stayed in hiding in your in your house? Or did you have to find a different spot to do I guess that would be considered more that would be considered safer?

Samir Omary 12:22
Definitely, we had to find another house, we found another place that a friend of a friend of my parents had, and we moved here temporarily. But we ended up staying there for nearly three months,

Abdullah Najjar 12:38
three months. And what was going through your head at that time? And your I guess what was going? How did you guys survive those those three months, I mean, most events more chaotic right after the fall?

Samir Omary 12:52
Well, we had to arrest whatever that could be traced to us to recognize us our involvement with even if it was not political, or if it was not related to the security, any involvement with education with Afghan government with my university, but anything that could be and there were many of those were red flags for Taliban. So we need to get rid of the any connection, anything that could trace, it was a good trace as to those involvements. And we were living in with the minimum minimums, and we will, our movements were at a minimum level, we were only leaving house for getting essential essentials or groceries. And we had spare phones found that the guy who the one who's leaving the house could carry only that phone, that one didn't had a record or the number saved or photos that could endanger the person. Wow, we had to take turns leaving the house and manage there.

Abdullah Najjar 13:58
And for three months, you guys had to do that you couldn't deviate from any of these steps of like taking turns or like minimizing your ability to leave the house or you had to stick to that routine.

Samir Omary 14:18
Exactly. So leaving the house it was a danger that we could not take for example in any other part of the world. If you have done something that you you're gonna need, they're gonna put you in a stand for that. You might have a chance to defend yourself but that's not going to happen in Taliban court. Once you ended up with them once they got you it doesn't matter what you have done. As long as you can that they can label you with the smallest thing then probably you will face the execution. Oh my god. The one of the main factor this period that the fighters they had it was revenge. Because because of the attacks that happened in their villages and their places by the NATO and Afghan military, they lost their family members. And the revenge was a huge factor. And they blinded the fighters, they they didn't care if this this person deserved execution or not. They were just executing people. They were taking revenge for the family members that they lost.

Abdullah Najjar 15:27
Wow and I'm sure you guys were, obviously, you're at a state of uncertainty. You were very scared. But how did you? How did you manage to leave? How did you manage to evacuate?

Samir Omary 15:41
Well, our evacuation was a really complicated and discreet process. As as we could not take part in an answer or follow the instruction from the calls that you're receiving, because the contact list of the students of American University were released. And we received the news that an email came that say that the Taliban are posing as an evacuation group. And they are calling the American university students and they giving them instruction for a location for evacuation. And when a student's follows instruction, they're going to face a house or a safe house of Taliban, where the students are going to be arrested. So the process that we were involved that we got part of it was an evacuation that were very discreetly and by by a really big group, it was planned. And I think for me, it was near the more early morning that I received a call from a US number, which were part of the evacuation group, and they told me that there is this opportunity, if you want to be part of it, I'll need to skip most of the details of this part. But since they could prove the credibility, and I agreed to follow it on with instructions, and that was that was how that group managed to get us out of the country with the support of our government. We had we could enter the airport and leave the country. It was actually the second attempt. The second the first attempt was a failed attempt that we couldn't get into the airport, a chaotic day as well. But the second attempt with the involvement of a group of organization, individuals and countries, it made it possible for for a group of us which were which we were 100 I think we are 110. We could live we could live in we could live the country. Wow. After treatments.

Abdullah Najjar 17:48
And with this group that you were part of how many of these people did you know?

Samir Omary 17:57
Actually a good number of them because they were all students of the American University of Afghanistan. Yeah. I had my some of my best friends, probably around 20 people that that I knew, and that was a blessing.

Abdullah Najjar 18:10
Yeah, yeah. What? Where did you guys go after you left Afghanistan. It was the next destinitation.

Samir Omary 18:19
We landed in Qatar, the first initial call that I received that I talked about, they give us the roadmap that you will end up in Kurdistan region of Iraq. Yeah. So if you agree to this evacuation, if you want to part of it, you're going to be transferred to acquitted to Qatar and then to Kurdistan region of Iraq. So we had our first flight to Qatar. And after, I think, three weeks, we flew to Kurdistan region of Iraq, there was a university, American university there that they could host us. So that's where we ended up.

Abdullah Najjar 19:01
And what was that? Like? Was there a set plan? Was there I guess? A rough sketch of what you guys were supposed to do for the next. I don't know how many weeks months or years you guys are planning to stay there. What was what was that like?

Samir Omary 19:21
Well as as chaotic as the process of relocation and evacuation was and for us, it was also uncertain, uncertain and it was unclear that how long it's going to take or even if it will be possible for us to get relocated to somewhere the university at in Kurdistan was the only place that accepted to host our group, no other country. And at that time, we only knew that we have a place to stay. And it was not clear for how long and we are we will end up end up. We if we could predict at that time because say we are going to end up you're going to be here for 5 years are probably this and that but we didn't have the slightest image of what's going to happen and what's going to be in store for us and long term.

Abdullah Najjar 20:11
Wow. So there must have been other than the fact that you guys were in a state of uncertainty. I mean, it must have been hard to try to navigate. Mean the courage society Oh, there must have been also like I guess a language barrier, right? I mean, how did you guys deal with that for the time you guys spent there,

Samir Omary 20:32
for sure there were struggles being uprooted from your home. In the matter of days, it was always a big struggle, learning a new country. Fortunately, there were cultural similarities in the region. And also, the language was a barrier. But after a while we could, since there were also similarities in language as well, we could find ways to communicate. But that was not the biggest problem that we're facing at that time. Yeah, we managed the 110 of us managed to live the countries but the country but we had our families, or our our siblings, our parents, like, for most of us, it was the case they were there. And they were being hunted. They were being some of the houses of the students, they got raided by the Taliban. And they were asking for the students. Because when the Taliban took over, they announced that the American university students of Afghanistan are the wolves in the cloth of sheep that that were educated by the Americans. So they they announced the students as a big target and how this work got more getting raided. So for us, the biggest challenge was the biggest. The biggest issue was the our families, we were worried for them, we keep talking to them, we keep checking on them. But at some point, we were only checking if they are online and social media. If their social media account is active, then after hour, two hour, I'll skip checking my family members phones with social media status to see if I could see that they were active 10 minutes ago, then I could I feel slightly relieved. But that was how we were coping with the situation.

Abdullah Najjar 22:21
Oh, my God, how did you even manage to focus on your studies? I mean, it must have been hard to try to, I mean, to focus on the future, whilst at the same time, you know, not knowing what is happening on the other side? What's happening, what your family is going through? And what's happening with your loved ones in Afghanistan? And how do you even try to maintain a balance?

Samir Omary 22:50
We definitely had a lot on our plate, as part of our requirements of our stay in that university. And that region was that we had to keep an active student status. Yeah. So I was involved. I was enrolled in a master's program as well to other students. So we had to attend to our classes. manage this shock and depression and stress that we had from all the things that happening happened, and also the stress of our family and the biggest pain of losing the country, our home. The things that we worked hard for for the past two decades, the losing losing of them, we were we were dealing with that pain, it was definitely critical situation. And we all were trying to be strong and don't bring it to our face and be grateful for the opportunity that we received. And we got relocated. Yeah, but it was never easy to, to forget or to get our focus out of Afghanistan out of us what has happened there and what's happening. Millions of people are on they are getting hunted, people are getting executed. People are losing their jobs, can't go to the school and they don't have food to put on their table. Definitely a time that most of us went through a lot of pain and stress.

Abdullah Najjar 24:19
I'm really sorry to hear that. It must have been really, I can't even imagine how it must've been like to go through that for for more than I guess. Since since the fall of Afghanistan. How, what happened next after Kurdistan? I mean, how did you manage to get to the US? That's I can't imagine how that must have been like.

Samir Omary 24:47
Well, unfortunately, the evacuation process the relocations, for for Afghan refugees and those who live were endangered It was It wasn't really not a productive stage. It was not a productive process. There are 1000s of people still they, they are left alone in in Pakistan or neighboring countries. We also as part of that group, we were in an uncertain situation. But luckily, we had support of some groups. The schools helped us with our day evacuation. Most of us because of being a student at American University or the other involvements, we were eligible for evacuation programs for the United States. But yeah, these programs had a timeframe of from three to five to seven to 10 years of process before you could get relocated to the states. And we, when we arrived after a few months, we try to start the process after some advocation and reaching out when the process started. But it took less than two years for us to get our approval approvals. Some of us actually,

Abdullah Najjar 26:04
Wow,

Samir Omary 26:05
We got the approval and in different groups, we got relocated to estates after we passed the whole process of immigration, they are in the third country. And unfortunately, there are still a number of our friends that are in Kurdistan, Iraq, still waiting for their case to get processed and get relocated to the states.

Abdullah Najjar 26:25
Oh, my God. And at that time, you started applying and you started going through that process. You had no idea when you're going to receive approval? If that is you're going to receive an approval. What did you have a plan B in mind that that time

Samir Omary 26:49
and the status that we had and in the region that we were at, unfortunately, we didn't have the possibility for for a plan B. All our hopes were for this immigration to the states and we reached out to UNHCR and they also, they only had us enlist for this four states immigration, not any other country, there was no other country that could accept this number of students, more than 100 students. So now that we relocated we got here, we most of us, we call this process that we we came to a state through our golden ticket, though it took us two years but comparing to the other immigrants, other Afghans who were displaced and they were they were still struggling and and a third and a third country. We came do it took two years though it was we faced many uncertainties, many difficulties. We had to reach out to the media to the senate members, whoever we could get in touch and and people to advocate for us. But it was a difficult it was a long process. But we call it a golden ticket.

Abdullah Najjar 28:05
Wow. Did you did you find more peace? When you transition here to the United States? Was it less? Was it less stressful your stay here? Or how would you describe it so far?

Samir Omary 28:21
Well, I don't want to sound ungrateful for for what I have. Definitely is a relief and a good opportunity to get to locate it with states and I got enrolled at NC State, a prestige university. But I never got disconnected from Afghanistan. i i My some part of me never left the country. As I mentioned, I think sometimes I think that I live in a parallel universe. Sometimes I think I still live in Afghanistan. I have my job. I have my volunteer projects, here are the orphanages that I could take them to these mini camps, trips to the gardens and everywhere, plan hikes with them. And at the same time I have I have to make a living in here I need to attend the school. It definitely was a blessing but I still am connected to the country to my home and and the people that that suffer suffering. They're the immigrants that are now getting deported from Iran and Pakistan. Though countries know that they are facing persecution. Some my some part of my body my mind is still with them with the country with the struggles that the people face India I never got disconnected from from the sufferings and the situation that is happening in Afghanistan.

Abdullah Najjar 29:47
Wow. This is beautiful. I just hope that you know, you'd be able to I guess I hope that all your loved ones would find more peace and do it find a better environment and what they're experiencing right now. Now that we're approaching the end of our conversation, Samir, I wanted to ask, Is your family Okay, right now? Have you been in contact with them? Are they still in Afghanistan or did they leave Afghanistan.

Samir Omary 30:21
Fortunately, my parents could leave the country after probably eight months after the collapse of the country, and they were in Europe, the after a few, I think, two years in Pakistan, they managed to go to Europe, they are there, they are safe, fortunately. But most of my relatives are still in the country. And the It's a relief that my parents and siblings are safe. But as I said, there are other Afghans and relatives that are in the country, that I could never get disconnected from them. And I always been with what we're feeling. I always feel what they are going through.

Abdullah Najjar 31:04
Wow. Well, it's I know, it's really hard Samir and I I admire your strength and your patience, and admire, strengthen the patience of all your loved ones and relatives that are saying Afghanistan and those other Afghans who are who have who have to endure the current situation. Thank you so much for sharing this with me, Samir, and for being so brave to go through details of your previous situation. I'm glad we had this conversation. So I want to I want to thank you for joining me.

Samir Omary 31:39
It was good talking to you.

Abdullah Najjar 31:40
Absolutely, thank you so much. Music that listen to today is called coy discovery final event by independent music licensing collective

Transcribed by https://otter.ai